The Great Adirondack Trail Run Raises its Ugly Head Again

[mvgebhard]

Again.

Yes, indeed:

The Mountaineer (Keene Valley) has filed an application and DEC has granted a Temporary Revocable Permit to the Mountaineer to run the same course they ran last year in the inaugural "one time only" event (at least that's how Vinny, the owner of the Mountaineer, characterized it last year). How do I know this? Based on a tip I received, I FOIL'd DEC recently for any information related to this proposed event, and it is indeed happening, with DEC's blessing.

The same issues remain: Is this a proper interpretation of the Unit Management Plan which governs the Giant Wilderness Area, through which this race will be run (and it is, indeed, a "race", despite their assertions last year that it was not a "competitive" event). Where I left off with this last year, was that the entire issue of trail runs would be debated "internally" and with the APA at DEC (letter from Rob Davies, Director of Lands and Forests). What the results were of that "debate", I do not know - unless this is evidence that the "debate" turned in favor of running these large group events in wilderness areas. The facts are yet to be determined in that regard.

Needless to say, this does not make me (or others who are concerned about the slippery slope that DEC is greasing) happy, and it can very well be stopped, with a concerted effort. I will send copies of these documents on to selected recipients of this email - if you definitely want a copy (and are not sure you are an pre-determined recipient), please reply and tell me you want a copy of the documents. Please include your mailing address, of course.

The "trail run" is scheduled for June 17, 2006, along the same route that was run last year.

I would suggest that, if you remain concerned about the adverse impacts of this type of event, and what it portends for our wilderness areas, that you immediately contact the DEC Commissioner and register your opposition to this and similar events.

Write to:

Denise Sheehan, Commissioner
NYS Department of Environmental Conservation
625 Broadway
Albany, N.Y. 12233-1010

[Kevin]

Who's sponsoring the event? It was my understanding that last year's sponsor wouldn't be backing the event taking place on such a course again.

[RC]

so did anyone look at the area after last year's event ? Was the area any different then the day before the event ?


RC

[mrbubbles]

RC raises a pertinent question.

The impact of a single trail run a year, whether or not it's an organized race, is almost certainly less than the cumulative impact of hikers.

Consider the following:

1. In a race, competitors tend to spread out.
2. Runners are lighter, since they don't carry heavy packs. Moreover their footwear is lighter and they don't use poles.
3. Runners spend less time in the woods, so they're less likely to relieve themselves in the woods.

Frankly I'm tired of this debate. We all know that ATV's do far more damage than 50 runners ever could. The Mountaineer does everything possible to minimize the impact, such as staggering the starting time and limiting the number of entrants. It's a very elite race, and faster runners tend to be significantly lighter on their feet.

Look, we're all users. Whether you're a hiker or a trail runner, you use the wilderness. Everything you do wears it down a little bit. None of us wants to lose the beautiful trails. Runners prefer trails to roads (and trail races to road races) because it's a heck of a lot easier on the knees and lungs. Do you know of any other places where we can run without having to worry about car fumes and asphalt?
To keep the trails totally pristine would mean denying access to everyone, but then a lot of people would stop caring about the wilderness. Is that what we want?

This is the tragedy of the commons.

Sometimes I get the feeling that hikers dislike trail running/racing because it's something that could be done anywhere. Surely, runners are too focused on speed to truly appreciate nature? Therefore they shouldn't be allowed to hold trail events.
I get the impression that some of the hostility stems from this.

This is sadly mistaken. I had hiked a lot before taking up trail running last year, and it was as if I'd been sleepwalking through the woods up to that point. I never felt as much at one with nature until I began running through the woods. There's something very passive about hiking--you sort of observe nature, on a very intellectual level. When you run you become part of nature. I remember thinking: "So this is what you're supposed to do in the woods"

You can't stop trail racing. It's here to stay. What you can do is make sure that there are plenty of trails so the impact can be spread around a bit more.

We're all pedestrians here. There is a fundamental difference between a pedestrian and a mountain bike or ATV's. We trail runners and hikers need each other, now more than ever. We know that the true enemies are bikes and ATV's, and global warming. The impact of hiking and running pale in comparison to the fundamental changes in local ecosystems brought about by mild winters and increasingly hot summers. If anything both activities do more good than harm because they give more people a stake in what happens to the Adirondacks.

[ADackR]

yeah, i hate post holers too,

oh wait, this isn't the right thread...
oopps sorry about that..

[Kevin]

MrBubbles, I don't think anyone wants to stop trail running. It's the organization of races in a wilderness area that has people (and not just hikers) concerned. The fear and interpretation here is that "racing" is sport, and not recreational use as outlined in the UMP. The UMPs are implimented for a reason, to protect us from ourselves.

And you say you're tired of the debate but you post the longest reply here. Apparently others are still evaluating this issue. Just because you're satisfied with the conclusions you've drawn doesn't mean everyone else is. Please try to keep an open mind and allow other members to work through their process of forming a conclusion.

For the record, I don't know of any hiking races. Also, I personally hold no grudges against trail running though I doubt I'll ever participate in such things. Just because I'm not a friend doesn't make me a foe. Some of my favorite perspectives on being outdoors have come from trail running members (Tim Seaver comes to mind). We truly are one big, sometimes happy but almost always dysfunctional family of outdoors enthusiasts.

Both you and RC make very good points, all of which I agree with. But in that particular part of the park it's not appropriate use. The issues are with the mountaineer and DEC than with trail running in general.

[percious]

so did anyone look at the area after last year's event ? Was the area any different then the day before the event ?


RC

I am very interested in this too. Being a former mountain bike racer, I know what kind of impact MTB racing has on the trail (significant impact when it's raining, small impact when it is dry). I would wonder how a trail running race would compare.

For what it is worth, when I was racing I would have jumped at a chance to race out in the HP, regardless of regulations.

How many runners competed in the last race? Is there a direct relation between number of racers and the impact they cause? Perhaps if they limit the number of competitors a good comprimise can be made.

-percious

[Dick]

It's the organization of races in a wilderness area that has people (and not just hikers) concerned.

This seems to be the jist of the chatter on the 46er list-serve, not trail running per se. And the fact that DEC seems to be involved in approving a commercial venture, one that many thought was to be a "one time only" affair.

Dick

[mvgebhard]

Im glad to see the discussion going on. I also started it on Petes Adk 46er listserve. No one is against trail running...its the organized "one time event" that has, or should have, everyone in an uproar. We all know that hikers do just as much damage, if not more than a trail runner (s). Its the wilderness setting that this is event is being allowed to be held. It sets a precedence for other groups to do the same thing, and trust me they will. As the sayin goes, "whats fair for one is fair for all". Somehow this needs to be nipped it butt, and quick. The Mountaineer is sponsoring the event, and did publicly state that it was a "one time thing" and a "big mistake" last year. So...apparently it was successful, very successful, for them to do it again. As soon as I get a complete list of addresses, I will post them and urge all of you to write to these people and tell them you are not in favor of organized races being held in Wilderness Areas. There are def loopholes in DEC's UMP(s) and Im sure that is how they get around the stipulations. DEC and the APA were spose to work internally on this dilemma last year...apparently they did not. Your continued support is much appreciated.

[RC]

I'm not against this run, but taking a look at the write up for last years race it was billed as a one time deal for their 30th anniversary so must be they made good money from it.


RC

[Pete_Hickey]

Note that trail damge is not (should not be) the issue. Broken trails can be fixed.

The issue is that the wilderness is not there to be used as a backdrop for events. Using the wilderness for 'extreme' events, is inconsistant with wilderness.

Wilderness is there for itself. It is not there for man.

[fvrwld]

A large scale organized event such as this is very un-wilderness like. I would hate to be the poor unknowing person who traveled miles to have a wilderness experience in the Giant Mountain WA and encounter a hoard of competing trail runners. Why can't this be done at a (closed for the summer) cross country ski center? They may welcome the income and attention that it would bring.

[BarbOrdell]

"...if you remain concerned about the adverse impacts of this type of event..."


The only adverse impacts of this event, if any, seem to be in the minds of those that allow the notion of an orgainized event in the wilderness to bother them. Perhaps they should close the trail to hikers on that day so as not to offend these fragile mindsets?

You don't think DEC has talked with their lawyers and policy makers before approving this TRP? No objective evidence is ever provided to support this narrow view of wilderness use. It's all opinion and we all have them and should repect them. We are a tiny fraction of the population for which these lands were set aside. The slippery slope Jim Close speaks of goes both ways. First you take away the wilderness, then the wild forest, before you know it George Bush is president.... We've heard all of the arguments before.

PS: I hear Golf Tours is reconsidering their 2006 series of runs:
http://indianpass20.gq.nu/

[Neil]

The Giant Mountain Wilderness Unit Management Plan has not been codified. I believe this means that pretty well anything goes as far as this race is concerned and there's nothing the DEC can do to stop it. The UMP should have been codified a long time ago but perhaps they're too busy handing out TRP's to get their act together.

If fifty of us forum folks got together and decided to have a race just for fun- no bibs, no sponsors, no banners, no for-profit organizers, departures nicely staggered, everyone keeps track of and reports their own time it would be a lot different. It's the organization and commercial structure behind the run that I don't like. There's no way the Mountaineer would go to all the trouble if they didn't think it was good for business. They're staging a visibility getting event in what is supposed to be a wilderness zone. It's a no-brainer. It aint right.

We all know there is more pavement than protected wilderness. The tiny fraction that has been set aside was not set aside for anybody. It was set aside for its own sake, simply for the value of having some land sitting there with nothing human going on in it. Wilderness is good for the collective psyche of the nation that has it, even if hardly anybody even goes into it. Staging footraces? Nah.

[mrbubbles]

It is almost certainly possible for everybody to save face here. Elite trail runners tend to prefer races with small numbers of people. Also, they prefer to run alone than in packs, so most of them probably wouldn't mind a staggered start. A good race, the sort that most trail racing folks tend to prefer (and pay more money for) would be easier on the trails. (That's part of the appeal of things like the Wakely Dam race). Most trail racers prefer events to be non-commercial as well--road races have gotten annoyingly commercialized and a number of runners switch to these types of races to avoid the commercialization. The trail running community in the northeast is pretty closely knit and I've found that most of them are pretty conscientious about preservation.