Ha-De-Ron-Dah Wilderness Loop 4/5 - 4/7/12

[Edb 46 er]

Great to see some photos! Nice.

[Wldrns]

Originally Posted by madison

So anyone know what the maximum penalty allowed by law is for using an ATV illegally on state lands?

And since there isn't enough manpower on the ground to enforce this, perhaps a much steeper penalty for the few times someone is actually caught would be in order? I'm guessing some people might be less likely to drive their ATV on state land if there was a chance their machine would be confiscated indefinitely.

Is there anyone within the DEC advocating for this?

One might wonder why there are not the same penalties for driving reckless, drunk, or otherwise illegally as with any other licensed motor vehicle. A local judge friend of mine who sees dozens of these cases every weekend and would like to see that implemented, said it is because there is a very powerful lobby in Albany against it. Which lobby? The Tavern lobby. Go figure.

Add to that very strong political pressure from county legislators such as in Lewis County who play the economy card to the hilt, and it is darn near impossible to enforce, much less make stronger any laws against ATVs. Sell your soul and wildland beauty for the almighty buck.

[Creekwader]

ATVs need air in their tires, that's all I'm going to say about how to fix the problem.

[mspaci]

I was in there hiking when I was a teenager, great land & I stayed in the middlesettlement leanto. Now I aint saying atv`s are right or wrong here, but they dont look like they are going away anytime soom, however, maybe they need some regulation in order to go back there, permit , only main trainls? or something. I know I am not gettin any younger & will not be able to back in far at sometime during the next 20 years.

[DSettahr]

Originally Posted by mspaci

I was in there hiking when I was a teenager, great land & I stayed in the middlesettlement leanto. Now I aint saying atv`s are right or wrong here, but they dont look like they are going away anytime soom, however, maybe they need some regulation in order to go back there, permit , only main trainls? or something. I know I am not gettin any younger & will not be able to back in far at sometime during the next 20 years.

One of the problems with ATV's (and motorized vehicle use in general) is that, no matter how carefully they are driven, the Adirondack ecosystem simply can't withstand those kinds of impacts. Without some serious trail hardening, the soils cannot withstand motor vehicle use, and inevitably, no matter how conscientious vehicle operators are, serious erosion is going to be the result.

Yes, it'd be possible to harden the trails to the point where they could withstand the impacts of motor vehicle use- but it'd take a lot of time, money, man power, and resources. All questions aside of whether such a significantly hardened trail has any place in what is supposed to be a wilderness setting, the amount of effort necessary to achieve sustainable ORV use in the northeastern forests is simply not something that is achievable on a large scale.

Even out west, where erosion is less of an issue (and motorized vehicle use on public lands has less of a social stigma attached to it), the amount of work and effort necessary to achieve sustainable ORV management still presents an issue that is difficult to over come.

[dundee]

Originally Posted by DSettahr

One of the problems with ATV's (and motorized vehicle use in general) is that, no matter how carefully they are driven, the Adirondack ecosystem simply can't withstand those kinds of impacts. Without some serious trail hardening, the soils cannot withstand motor vehicle use, and inevitably, no matter how conscientious vehicle operators are, serious erosion is going to be the result.

Yes, it'd be possible to harden the trails to the point where they could withstand the impacts of motor vehicle use- but it'd take a lot of time, money, man power, and resources. All questions aside of whether such a significantly hardened trail has any place in what is supposed to be a wilderness setting, the amount of effort necessary to achieve sustainable ORV use in the northeastern forests is simply not something that is achievable on a large scale.

Even out west, where erosion is less of an issue (and motorized vehicle use on public lands has less of a social stigma attached to it), the amount of work and effort necessary to achieve sustainable ORV management still presents an issue that is difficult to over come.

Yup. And then there's the fact that the overwhelming majority of the vehicle drivers are just too lazy to walk in.

[teclo]

Did you happen to see the big huge turtle at the flat rock on the water at Middle Settlement?