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Old 10-19-2017, 06:41 PM   #1
beartooth91
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Pond Tactic: Multiple Flies

Hypothetically speaking of course......

I arrive to fish an ADK Brookie pond, see no surface activity, and have no idea where the fish are. I'd like to explore the entire water column using 3 or 4 flies, spaced at roughly equal intervals, on the leader.

Consider the following drawing:



Am I thinking about this right?
Most of my Stillwater knowledge is based on Denny Rickards' books and videos. One of his "no-no's" is fishing subsurface flies with a floating line. Yet I'd think - with the appropriate length leader it would be perfect for probing the entire water column.

In the UK, they do just this, fishing 2 or 3 flies under a "bung" (strike indicator) or they'll remove the bung, replacing it with a 3rd or 4th fly. Both were originally used with chironomids and the latter is referred to as "straight line buzzer fishing". Either can be used with other nymphs/wets.

Thought I'd ask all of you what I'm missing.......
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Old 10-19-2017, 06:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beartooth91 View Post
Hypothetically speaking of course......

I arrive to fish an ADK Brookie pond, see no surface activity, and have no idea where the fish are. I'd like to explore the entire water column using 3 or 4 flies, spaced at roughly equal intervals, on the leader.

Consider the following drawing:



Am I thinking about this right?
Most of my Stillwater knowledge is based on Denny Rickards' books and videos. One of his "no-no's" is fishing subsurface flies with a floating line. Yet I'd think - with the appropriate length leader it would be perfect for probing the entire water column.

In the UK, they do just this, fishing 2 or 3 flies under a "bung" (strike indicator) or they'll remove the bung, replacing it with a 3rd or 4th fly. Both were originally used with chironomids and the latter is referred to as "straight line buzzer fishing". Either can be used with other nymphs/wets.

Thought I'd ask all of you what I'm missing.......
You are missing nothing. You might want to get Bob Sheedy's book. He goes through some special situations. So do Phil Rowley and Brian Chan in their book.

The one thing to think about is brookie behavior. If they're not showing they are likely 18" off the bottom. This is very much different than how rainbows or browns behave. It's more a matter of finding where they are and then getting a fly down to that depth.

I like to use a 14 foot leader and sinking line. I fish specific areas where I think they'll be. Often they outwit me but sometimes, just sometimes...
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:19 PM   #3
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Coincidentally, I've been eyeing Sheedy's book for the last, few days. He appears to have an Amazon store.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by beartooth91 View Post

Thought I'd ask all of you what I'm missing.......
Looks like you would have 12 lures on one line?

"The definition of angling in New York (Environmental Conservation Law 11-0103 12. b.) states that...An angler may operate up to three lines in freshwater, and each line shall have not more than 5 lures or baits, or a combination of both, and in addition each line shall not exceed 15 hook points in any combination of single, double, and treble hooks."

Or am I missing something?
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:19 AM   #5
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He's obviously referring to fishing four different lines, no such thing as a line such as is in the drawing.

That said, imagine casting that line with 4 different sink rates and 12 flies. And what a mess when you cought a fish , or even a few fish all at once, it would take a week to straighten out that tangle.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:49 AM   #6
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He's obviously referring to fishing four different lines, no such thing as a line such as is in the drawing.

That said, imagine casting that line with 4 different sink rates and 12 flies. And what a mess when you cought a fish , or even a few fish all at once, it would take a week to straighten out that tangle.
Aaah. Obviously for some. I missed it.
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Connecticut Yankee View Post
He's obviously referring to fishing four different lines, no such thing as a line such as is in the drawing.

That said, imagine casting that line with 4 different sink rates and 12 flies. And what a mess when you cought a fish , or even a few fish all at once, it would take a week to straighten out that tangle.
I like it! What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:47 PM   #8
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I can see a huge rats nest occurring ,after trolling just a short distance!!
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Old 10-20-2017, 06:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by beartooth91 View Post
Most of my Stillwater knowledge is based on Denny Rickards' books and videos. One of his "no-no's" is fishing subsurface flies with a floating line. Yet I'd think - with the appropriate length leader it would be perfect for probing the entire water column.
Hal Janssen promotes the use of floating line with long hand-tied leaders. His book "Stillwater Fly Fishing Secrets" is a real gem. He's more technical than Denny but both of them are great resources. Bob Sheedy's book is good too and he's a real character.

Both Hal and Denny are gentlemen. I write them at least every other week with questions. They always get back to me and are happy to answer any questions I may have.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beartooth91 View Post
Hypothetically speaking of course......

I arrive to fish an ADK Brookie pond, see no surface activity, and have no idea where the fish are. I'd like to explore the entire water column using 3 or 4 flies, spaced at roughly equal intervals, on the leader.

Consider the following drawing:


Am I thinking about this right?
Most of my Stillwater knowledge is based on Denny Rickards' books and videos. One of his "no-no's" is fishing subsurface flies with a floating line. Yet I'd think - with the appropriate length leader it would be perfect for probing the entire water column.

In the UK, they do just this, fishing 2 or 3 flies under a "bung" (strike indicator) or they'll remove the bung, replacing it with a 3rd or 4th fly. Both were originally used with chironomids and the latter is referred to as "straight line buzzer fishing". Either can be used with other nymphs/wets.

Thought I'd ask all of you what I'm missing.......
You aren't missing anything and that's part of the problem. So many variables between the lines and the leaders and the flies. Maybe its a function of my job which often involves reducing highly complicated problems to simple yet robust solutions but my mantra for brook trout pond fishing is simplicity. I try to spend as little time possible re-rigging lines, leaders and flies. I caught all my pond brook trout this year on 2 different flies (single) and the same type II sinking line. The type 2 line can handle fish just below the surface to near the depths of the Type IV by adjusting the sink count. That eliminates all the lines you've pictured. A type IV would be great for plumbing the depths but is only needed during the summer and if you're catch/release fishing then dragging the fish up into the warm water is not advised. Casting 3-4 flies at one time sounds like a tremendous pain especially in the wind.

If I had to estimate how deep I caught the majority of pond brook trout this season I would say 5-12 feet over maybe 8-20 FOW. That's where active and feeding fish are going to hang out and I can easily work that zone with type II sinking. The two biggest fish of the season came from approximately the bottom/middle of those two ranges.
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Old 10-21-2017, 07:01 AM   #11
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Hal Janssen promotes the use of floating line with long hand-tied leaders. His book "Stillwater Fly Fishing Secrets" is a real gem. He's more technical than Denny but both of them are great resources. Bob Sheedy's book is good too and he's a real character.

Both Hal and Denny are gentlemen. I write them at least every other week with questions. They always get back to me and are happy to answer any questions I may have.
I have most of Denny's books and I also have Janssen's book. The latter has been hard to understand in certain places, but, I did notice, a few nights ago, that he advocates fishing vertical moving aquatic insects on floating lines with long leaders. Seems like the concepts in this book get easier to understand as time goes by.

I've not had great experiences with Denny. I've written and talked with him but my occasional requests for help are met with either refusals or lectures. That said, his books - particularly "Stillwater Presentation" are impressive and I tie many of his flies.

Yesterday, I did order Sheedy's book. I'm curious about it as it seems to be highly recommended on this forum.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:47 AM   #12
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I predict you'll like Sheedy's book. He's a real character and not of the Orvis-Simms-Patagonia everything-too-perfect mold. I had the opportunity to meet him briefly on my trip to Manitoba.

I personally regard Denny as a bit of a lightweight. He primarily fishes pay-to-play waters in the west and his techniques are somewhat limited. That said, I like a number of his stillwater patterns.

Three other authors you ought to seek out are Brian Chan, Phil Rowley and Paul Marriner. Coincidentally, they are all Canadians.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:40 PM   #13
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"Thought I'd ask all of you what I'm missing......."

Its pretty obvious.........the fish!
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