More forest rangers

[Trail Boss]

Originally Posted by adkman12986

... Hike the White Mts. in NH and it is required.

It's not required. It's voluntary. Even says so in the link you provided. "Buy your voluntary Hike Safe card ..."

[Terasec]

Originally Posted by adkman12986

Everybody always wants something for nothing I guess

I pay over $300 a year in various fees/permits/tags/licenses
Not exactly something for nothing
How much more do you think i should pay to enjoy the outdoors?

[timberghost]

Originally Posted by adkman12986

Everybody always wants something for nothing I guess

If that wasn't true, would we have the country we live in today?

The problem with fees and taxes is that they go to the bureaucrats who choose how to spend it... and if you've read the Times recently you'd almost certainly think you could get more for your hard earned buck.

It's not just the money, it's also priorities in albany and having reasonable assurance that money raised will go toward the intended purpose.
Take the bottle and can deposit, which was supposed to go to EPF but only ~23M out of ~103M goes in EPF the rest is 'general' revenue...

[wiiawiwb]

Originally Posted by adkman12986

Everybody always wants something for nothing I guess

I don't know what your particular financial situation is nor do I care. Some of us are paying a TON of NYS income taxes which is supposed to fund state operations. These taxes are fiduciary money and should be spent wisely.

I "contribute" way too much to the NYS coffers as it is and don't want to pay a penny more. How about we get concessions from the government to reduce their spending rather than neverendingly increase ours?

[Tug Hill]

As a private Consultant Forester who has worked directly for 10 years with DEC Forest Rangers who are the principle law enforcement agency on the private land that we manage. (Rangers are involved because of the Conservation Easment on the property.)
It is my observation that I really don’t know what they do to earn their pay ?

[Wldrns]

If you don't know what Forest Rangers do, the NYSDEC will send you frequent press releases, including recent Ranger activity, and any number of other relevant topics that you choose. Sign up on the NYSDEC web page.
See: http://www.dec.ny.gov/public/65855.html

I was recently involved in a 2+ week SAR incident on WallFace, working with dozens of Rangers every day. Just before Christmas I worked with a similar number searching for a lost hunter near Cooperstown.

[Tug Hill]

I know on occasion they help search and rescue unprepared hikers in the High Peaks and lost unprepared hunters.

Given the new Fed tax bill, and Cuomo’s 4 billion dollar budget deficit, he will need to start cutting government expenditures instead of raising taxes to pay for more Rangers.

[Wldrns]

Originally Posted by Tug Hill

I know on occasion they help search and rescue unprepared hikers in the High Peaks and lost unprepared hunters.

Their duties and accomplishments are a bit more involved than that:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/41086.html

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/2369.html

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/107667.html

[timberghost]

Originally Posted by Tug Hill

As a private Consultant Forester who has worked directly for 10 years with DEC Forest Rangers who are the principle law enforcement agency on the private land that we manage. (Rangers are involved because of the Conservation Easment on the property.)
It is my observation that I really don’t know what they do to earn their pay ?

I don't blame you, since you rarely if ever see SFRs, especially when you need them to deal with a problem you have.
However, you have to realize that law enforcement is the primary function of ECOs and not all SFRs are ECOs. Further, all SFRs are stretched so thin that handling a complaint from a Forester on an easement (likely in the middle of nowhere) probably does not make the top priority list.
Unfortunately, these days Rangers rarely make it beyond the end of that top priority list...

[Tug Hill]

Originally Posted by timberghost

I don't blame you, since you rarely if ever see SFRs, especially when you need them to deal with a problem you have.
However, you have to realize that law enforcement is the primary function of ECOs and not all SFRs are ECOs. Further, all SFRs are stretched so thin that handling a complaint from a Forester on an easement (likely in the middle of nowhere) probably does not make the top priority list.
Unfortunately, these days Rangers rarely make it beyond the end of that top priority list...

For a decade we’ve been told by the DEC that on easement lands, outside of a wildlife violation, the FR.’s are the principle law enforcement agency we have to deal with. If they are in fact spread so thin, and easement land is not top priority, maybe the state should stop entering in these conservation easement agreements ? since NYS has trouble living up to their side of the agreements ?

[timberghost]

Originally Posted by Tug Hill

For a decade we’ve been told by the DEC that on easement lands, outside of a wildlife violation, the FR.’s are the principle law enforcement agency we have to deal with. If they are in fact spread so thin, and easement land is not top priority, maybe the state should stop entering in these conservation easement agreements ? since NYS has trouble living up to their side of the agreements ?

Those are good questions that I'm in no position to answer.
Perhaps a judge will get a breach of contract case one day and make a determination. I wouldn't hold my breath...

[Bounder45]

Originally Posted by Terasec

I pay over $300 a year in various fees/permits/tags/licenses
Not exactly something for nothing
How much more do you think i should pay to enjoy the outdoors?

Yes, but you're only paying that much if you're involved in hunting/trapping or fishing or both. Hunters and anglers pay their way in this state and provide a large portion of the funding for state conservation efforts. Most people going on a random day hike in the ADK's pay little to nothing towards state conservation.

I don't like the idea of having to pay to use state land, but with the ever increasing foot traffic in some areas, and the corresponding erosion and rescue issues, some land use fees may come around sooner or later.

Originally Posted by timberghost

If that wasn't true, would we have the country we live in today?

The problem with fees and taxes is that they go to the bureaucrats who choose how to spend it... and if you've read the Times recently you'd almost certainly think you could get more for your hard earned buck.

It's not just the money, it's also priorities in albany and having reasonable assurance that money raised will go toward the intended purpose.
Take the bottle and can deposit, which was supposed to go to EPF but only ~23M out of ~123M (IIRC) goes in EPF the rest is 'general' revenue...

That's a "problem" with a simple fix. NY (in fact all state) hunting and fishing fees, by law have to go towards state conservation efforts (studies, ECO/Ranger salaries, research, land work, ect.). In the same way that taxes on firearms, ammo and other camping supplies have to go towards state and federal conservation efforts (pittman robertson act). And many of those laws were written in decades ago, when corruption and state fiscal problems were quite common.

I don't know about paying for permits to use any state land, but paying for a permit to camp or hike in high-traffic areas (e.g. certain High Peaks trails) could be a way to deal with the increasing foot traffic in that area.

[timberghost]

Originally Posted by Bounder45

That's a "problem" with a simple fix. NY (in fact all state) hunting and fishing fees, by law have to go towards state conservation efforts (studies, ECO/Ranger salaries, research, land work, ect.). In the same way that taxes on firearms, ammo and other camping supplies have to go towards state and federal conservation efforts (pittman robertson act). And many of those laws were written in decades ago, when corruption and state fiscal problems were quite common.

I don't know about paying for permits to use any state land, but paying for a permit to camp or hike in high-traffic areas (e.g. certain High Peaks trails) could be a way to deal with the increasing foot traffic in that area.

Simple fix today would be as common as finding a Morel growing wild in February...
Example - how ORDA budget woes were fixed last year.

I'm no expert on how 'the state' could justify charging a fee to enter High Peaks Wilderness and no fee for Dix, Pharoah or Whitney.
Would such a system be legal? (as the law stands today)

[rADK]

No thanks.