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Old 12-04-2007, 09:28 PM   #21
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sorry i only guide spring turkey hunts on the property (lol)
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:59 AM   #22
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IMO antler restrictions should be self imposed. We already have laws that distinguish what's a legal buck (3" minimum). More petty laws aren't needed.

You may be going after a big "trophy" buck and have the luxury to let the little ones pass. That's cool. You may not depend on the meat to feed you and your family. That's cool too.

But there are plenty of people still out there that rely on a deer or two or more to feed their families. It's not a hobby to them. Tell the guy that is laid off with two kids and pregnant wife that he can't shoot anything less than a 6 pt. - He'll laugh in your face and kill the next one that comes down the trail.

I have more respect for a man that kills a couple extra deer (legal or not) and uses all the meat, than a hunter that kills a big buck every year and throws away freezer burned steaks each September.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:18 AM   #23
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IMO antler restrictions should be self imposed. We already have laws that distinguish what's a legal buck (3" minimum). More petty laws aren't needed.

You may be going after a big "trophy" buck and have the luxury to let the little ones pass. That's cool. You may not depend on the meat to feed you and your family. That's cool too.

But there are plenty of people still out there that rely on a deer or two or more to feed their families. It's not a hobby to them. Tell the guy that is laid off with two kids and pregnant wife that he can't shoot anything less than a 6 pt. - He'll laugh in your face and kill the next one that comes down the trail.

I have more respect for a man that kills a couple extra deer (legal or not) and uses all the meat, than a hunter that kills a big buck every year and throws away freezer burned steaks each September.
Excellent points and I agree with you that we don't need more laws and we shouldn't make it harder on people that do really need the meat. I guess what burns me the most is when I pass on a spike and a guy who has already shot multiple bucks that year and doesn't need the meat shoots it the last day of the season when that deer most likely would have made it on to the next year. I understand he has every right to do that but I just wish there was some way to change that mentally in some people. To be honest with you I never thought of the issue that some people do need the meat to feed their families and I would much rather deal with having guys shoot small bucks than have that familly not have enough meat to get through the winter.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:39 AM   #24
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You are correct with one exception I would say less than not many. A doe hanging in this country is almost unheard of ( unless they made a trip south ) The bow hunters all go south. Bow hunting in the north country is a farse. I can't believe that DEC even has a season for it. Can you see yourself hiking the backcountry for days with a bow to never see a deer?
I took a doe this year with the muzzleloader. And a good sized one at that. A lot of the doe I saw this year were particularly large.

I did attempt to bowhunt this year in the dacks. It was a bit of a challenge because I didn't really plan anything. I just kind of went out with my bow.

I think I might build a decent ground blind for next year and see if I can't get one.

I would like to get a trifecta next year:
1 with the Bow
1 with the Muzzleloader
1 with the Rifle
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:40 AM   #25
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Excellent points and I agree with you that we don't need more laws and we shouldn't make it harder on people that do really need the meat. I guess what burns me the most is when I pass on a spike and a guy who has already shot multiple bucks that year and doesn't need the meat shoots it the last day of the season when that deer most likely would have made it on to the next year. I understand he has every right to do that but I just wish there was some way to change that mentally in some people. To be honest with you I never thought of the issue that some people do need the meat to feed their families and I would much rather deal with having guys shoot small bucks than have that familly not have enough meat to get through the winter.
I agree with that 100%
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Old 12-05-2007, 01:08 PM   #26
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The only problem with this argument is that any deer I shoot winds up costing alot more money per pound than anything in the supermarket. Hunting far from home isn't cheap. Anyone who hunts for meat would generally rather have a doe or small buck , just for taste and tenderness.And I am sure seasons don't matter that much when the freezer is empty.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:02 PM   #27
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The only problem with this argument is that any deer I shoot winds up costing alot more money per pound than anything in the supermarket. Hunting far from home isn't cheap. Anyone who hunts for meat would generally rather have a doe or small buck , just for taste and tenderness.And I am sure seasons don't matter that much when the freezer is empty.
Just for the sake of argument , We can put as much money into our hunting as we want.
But, for the person that needs to make ends meet , and has access to the tools , 58$ for a super sportsman tag would give a person tags for five deer . gas , ammo , and arrows add to the cost , but 3-5 deer processed at home , can put a lot of meat in the freezer for a familly that needs it without the risk of leagle repercussions from hunting outside of the law.
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:11 PM   #28
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I know some people that enjoy the meat because they can spend their money on other things but I don't know too many that would starve if they didn't get meat. Let's be honest that the reason why hunting is allowed is for deer pop control and for sport.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:05 PM   #29
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i agree 95% hunt for sport, as in i like to hunt and the meat tastes good also
but i personally know 5% who are homesteaders and would starve with out what the land provides
and to be quite honest they do not know what taxes or a license is either
i'm all good with that , being as they do not suck off the system
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:06 PM   #30
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I know some people that enjoy the meat because they can spend their money on other things but I don't know too many that would starve if they didn't get meat. Let's be honest that the reason why hunting is allowed is for deer pop control and for sport.
They may not starve but the meat does go a long way to help out their situation.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:11 PM   #31
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Antler restrictions

Antler restrictions in NY is a very touchy subject. My personal opinion would be to give antler restriction a try. They made it a law in VT so nobody could shoot spike horns two years ago. It seems to be helping according to a few Vermonter's I spoke with this year. The first year will be hard, especially if it was a three point on one side limit like in Pennsylvania. After a year or two of passing up 1 1/2 yr old deer, the big boys will start showing up more. I also think this state should go to a one buck per year limit like Ohio. That means for muzzle, bow and riffle you get only one buck, not two. That would make the shooter think a little more before he or she shot. I also agree with the above statements. The buck to doe ratio is way out of wack. Something definitely needs to be done in NY state to improve on the deer quality. NY has the resourses to grow nice deer but the people who set the hunting regulations need to want nice deer. If anybody gets a chance do a search on the huge buck taken in Steuben county and see what the state can produce for nice bucks.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:59 PM   #32
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Last year I let tons of spike horns and a few 4 pointers go and ended up not filling my tag. This year in my area there have been a lot of well antlered bucks. I bagged a gorgeous 8 pointer the second day of the Southern zone here in the Mohawk Valley. I try to manage and do the right thing but what really smokes me is the outlaws that either don't fill out their tag and try to make it home like that. Use a pen they can erase on their tag. Fill their buck tag and continue hunting with their wife's or kids buck tags. And people who neglect to report their deer. Last year just before South opened we had a 3 pointer in our ditch near our orchard that was all dressed out and the back legs were cut so it was hung somewhere in our woods or the woods across the street. They must have panicked and left the deer in the ditch. I had just seen a 3 pointer in the woods a few days before when I was taking a walk and that was probably him. We called the DEC and they came to pick him up and dump him. Great huh! What they should do is raise the fines if you get caught with a tag not filled out on purpose or hunting with someone elses tag. And pull your license for at least 5 years. I believe they do that for some violations but I'm not sure which ones. And usually the guy that fills his freezer with 3 or 4 is dumping it in the Summer as the meat was all freezer burned. What's the point?
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:44 AM   #33
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The buck to doe ratio is way out of wack. .
Northern zone doe lottery?

Regarding the tags its very common even for people who I consider law abiding to pass along unused tags. Probably for a seperate thread but I've seen it quite a bit and I haven't been around that long.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:34 AM   #34
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Northern zone doe lottery?

Regarding the tags its very common even for people who I consider law abiding to pass along unused tags. Probably for a seperate thread but I've seen it quite a bit and I haven't been around that long.
The passing of tags - I think that's one of the primary reasons that antlerless permits are now allowed to be legally signed-off to other hunters. DEC couldn't control or enforce the illegal use of tags, and they want the DMP quotas met.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:05 AM   #35
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Just to add fuel to the fire regarding antler restrictions...As a professional taxidermist, I can tell you that most of the bucks I mount are 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 years old with 6 or more points. Those that are 4 1/2 and older (rare) are the better than average heavy beamed bucks that for most NY hunters are a once-in-a-life-time buck. Most of the hunters having 2 1/2 & 3 1/2 year old bucks mounted tell me that it is the best deer they have ever gotten. While I do have a number of repeat customers, the majority are first timers who are at least 30 years old and are having their "best yet" buck mounted. Whether I agree with it or not, antler restrictions would definitely improve the quality of the NY deer herd.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:20 AM   #36
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Just to add fuel to the fire regarding antler restrictions...As a professional taxidermist, I can tell you that most of the bucks I mount are 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 years old with 6 or more points. Those that are 4 1/2 and older (rare) are the better than average heavy beamed bucks that for most NY hunters are a once-in-a-life-time buck. Most of the hunters having 2 1/2 & 3 1/2 year old bucks mounted tell me that it is the best deer they have ever gotten. While I do have a number of repeat customers, the majority are first timers who are at least 30 years old and are having their "best yet" buck mounted. Whether I agree with it or not, antler restrictions would definitely improve the quality of the NY deer herd.
I'm not a hunter yet and have no problem with hunting. I thought I'd get that out before I asked my questions.

How old will a buck or doe get?

How old will a buck get under normal or heavy hunting pressure?

Can I asume the does get older because the hunting pressure on them is not as great?

Besides antler size & points being larger how much does the usable meat increase with age?
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:57 PM   #37
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Those are questions that get the depends answer as I'm sure you are aware.

I've watched deer throughout the seasons and the Does seem to make their presence known more but in the summer it's hard to tell the difference. I would say Doe's live about 8 years and bucks 12 naturally. I'm sure hunting takes a good percentage but so do cars and predation and starvation. If a deer breaks a leg running away it doesn't get the option to lay on the sofa and heal for 6-8 weeks The health of the deer also plays a huge part in the size.

The venison yield is probably about 40% for an adult buck. Smaller deer lower venison yield and vice versa. Also depends on the wastage from the shot but 30-45% is probably the range.

If you see a buck over 2.5 years old in the Daks most if not all people would want to harvest that. I would. The most common deer taken is probably the 1.5 year old buck. Another educated guess would be 1 in 5 deer in the daks are Male bucks 1.5 or older.

Something else I've learned if you see a button buck (6 mos) in your hunting area there is a good chance it won't be around next season because it will move. But, a 1.5 year old has a very good chance of becoming a 2.5 year old.

This is a really cool link......
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fields...631624,00.html

Good luck!
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:09 PM   #38
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Don't yell at me for this one but; DEC was very successful in transplanting turkeys from Pennsylvania, how about whitetails from areas with large populations that are not being hunted. Long Islands east end has very little hunting and an amazingly large deer population!
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:22 PM   #39
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Don't yell at me for this one but; DEC was very successful in transplanting turkeys from Pennsylvania, how about whitetails from areas with large populations that are not being hunted. Long Islands east end has very little hunting and an amazingly large deer population!
It will never work , those LI deer like Starbucks and would never settle for Stewarts coffee.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:03 PM   #40
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You'd have to disenfect them for ticks. Hate to see those up in the 'Daks.
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