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Old 09-10-2013, 09:16 PM   #1
abundy0014
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heritage strain brook trout

so guys i have been looking recently on here and elsewhere and cant seem to find a good source for reading on the heritage strain of trout in ny. i know some of you mention names like little tupper strain or windfall and im assuming they are named after the body of water they originally were found in? if this is the case wouldnt there have been hundreds of strains of "heritage" trout? just looking to get more info on the wild fish we have here in our state. Would greatly appreciate some info. also the book by nick karas is that about our state or just brookies in general? thanks guys
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:31 PM   #2
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Good for you for looking!

There's actually a lot of info out there. Start with the DEC website and you will find a number of links to papers and presentations about the present state of affairs. This is one of the best IMO:

http://www.epa.gov/region1/neaeb2008...RITAGE2008.pdf

In answer to one of your questions, nobody knows how many strains there were. You are right that there were potentially a lot of them. Now we get excited over adding one more to the few that are known. There's one member of this forum who has probably located a remore pond that has never been stocked and could contain a 'new' heritage strain.

How did it get this way?The history of our 'management' of the Adirondacks is not a pretty one and what we did to the fisheries is no exception. Think mindless stocking, intentional stocking of Perch to ruin a competing guide's territory, generations of releasing invasive baitfish. There went 95% of the brook trout's original range as a monoculture. The latest indignity was the moron who introduced bass to Little Tupper Lake because he didn't like the DEC's regulations put there to protect the resource.

Then read about the reclamation, starting with the St. Regis drainage in 1952. It was a model for what's transpired since. The good news is that things are getting better. There are more reclaimed ponds with naturally reproducing heritage strain brookies than at any time in the last century. Acidity in those ponds is slowly abating. There is wonderful brookie fishing to be had that wasn't available even 20 years ago. And I'd like to think that awareness is growing.

An answer to your final question: Nick Karas' book is a compendium of information on brook trout wherever they exist. That said, he's from NY (Long Island, which used to be a phenominal brook trout fishery) and wrote quite a bit about the Catskills and Adirondacks.

Spread the word and the passion!
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:07 AM   #3
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we are all aware of the little tupper situation but has the guy ever been caught?
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:11 AM   #4
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we are all aware of the little tupper situation but has the guy ever been caught?

Never caught, but there is a special place in hell reserved for him.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #5
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it just gets to me that theres a dbag floating around somewhere that can legitimately say ya, i am responsible for that.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #6
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sorry, back to "abundy's" topic
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:59 PM   #7
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Never caught, but there is a special place in hell reserved for him.
How much validity is there to the story? How would anyone know about it? How many bass we talking? Will two bass be prolific enough to over run a lake? Who has the story on this numbskull?
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #8
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How much validity is there to the story?
From the DEC website http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/9165.html

"Largemouth bass were illegally introduced to Little Tupper Lake some time after it was opened to the public. The bass have proliferated to the detriment of the brook trout population."
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #9
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How much validity is there to the story? How would anyone know about it? How many bass we talking? Will two bass be prolific enough to over run a lake? Who has the story on this numbskull?
Enough is known and I believe the DEC knows exactly who did it. As I understand it, he openly threatened this action beforehand if the DEC didn't change the fishing regulations on Little Tupper. That said, there's no proof that would stand up in a courtroom.

There were no Bass anywhere in that drainage for 10,000 years plus the time the Whitneys and others held the land and controlled access. Soon after the area became public the Bass arrived. Now it is a Bass fishery with a few precious Brookies in it. Little Tupper can't be reclaimed by any known technology because of its flushing rate, size and extensive wetlands.

The same is true for Big Moose in the western Adirondacks, where Bass may have been illegally introduced downstream by a fish and game club. This is a tragedy in the making.

I hope some of you Bass fishers are reading this. None of us have anything against them except when they're an invasive species in our Brookie lakes and ponds. Keep them and enjoy them where they belong!
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:32 PM   #10
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Heritage Brook Trout

Being a member of the Buck Mtn. Club we have the only stream that runs directly into Little Tupper Lake, this being Sperry Brook and the Bog Stream. Sperry Brook comes from Sperry Pond on the north side of Rt.30. Our Club lodge is where the Whitney's had a Fish hatchery on the banks of Sperry Brook. You can go to the stream edge and still see the filled in concrete raceways and other pieces of the hatchery operation. The Whitney's would live trap the native strain of the Heritage Brook Trout which came up the brook towards Sperry Pond. They would then get their eggs and milk from these native fish and they would release them back to the stream and back to Little Tupper Lake. They would raise the fingerlings to various sizes and release them back into their native water, which they never left throughout the entire process. You could say that many of these "pure strain" Heritage Brook Trout were actually "stockies". The process was so controlled that the breed remained pure from egg to fish. South of our club Sperry Brook joins the Bog Stream and flows into Little Tupper. We fish the Stream in May-June and most fish are returned to the water save for a few for the pan. We know when the Trout leave the stream and go back to the lake, as they pass the Smallmouths coming upstream. The Smallies are usually 8" and up but recently we have noticed that fingerling Bass are now at our doorstep, a clear sign that Bass spawning is taking place pretty much in the whole stream and the lake as well. It is a very sad event in deed.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:17 AM   #11
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Too bad they cannot organize groups of anglers to go in and harvest every bass possible by rod and reel, electro-shocking, netting, fishing beds....And why do they have seasonal regulations and limits? There should be no closed season or limit for bass on Little Tupper.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:54 AM   #12
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"Enough is known and I believe the DEC knows exactly who did it. As I understand it, he openly threatened this action beforehand if the DEC didn't change the fishing regulations on Little Tupper. That said, there's no proof that would stand up in a courtroom."

Thanks for the info. Unbelievable. If one makes a mistake whilst attempting to make things better it is regrettable. To knowingly make things worse in the act of vengeance is immoral.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #13
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I agree with Gman. Declare open season and fish them out. We'll never get them all, but denting the population would certainly help the brookies. There would be catch and kill tournaments like they have for snakeheads down in Florida.

Someone get the BASS, and bass masters, and FLW, and Jimmy Houston on the phone. We're gonna have us a fish fry!
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #14
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I agree with Gman. Declare open season and fish them out. We'll never get them all, but denting the population would certainly help the brookies. There would be catch and kill tournaments like they have for snakeheads down in Florida.

Someone get the BASS, and bass masters, and FLW, and Jimmy Houston on the phone. We're gonna have us a fish fry!
I like this idea!
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:48 PM   #15
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How many bass could I catch in a summer? I'm guessing twenty a night based on recent experiences. We'll need a thousand fishermen for two weeks. Just need a brewery to sponsor the tournament.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:45 PM   #16
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Someone get the BASS, and bass masters, and FLW, and Jimmy Houston on the phone. We're gonna have us a fish fry!
They'll happily agree, until someone tells them "carry your boats and no motors - paddles & oars only, not even electric trolling motors.."

FWIW, in recent years while greater numbers of bass are present in LTL the size (of the larger fish) has been decreasing and more fish are lean (not stuffed to the gills like before). Therefore I speculate that they've hit the tipping point of the food supply chain and are probably trying to find any additional water to take over.

Unfortunately, they'll never be fished out - there's a lot of wetland and stream habitat between round lake and rock pond..

As for open season on them, what kind of impact would that have on the remaining heritage trout and other wildlife? may not be as obvious as it seems.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:44 PM   #17
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If things have gone as far as they have then I doubt there would be any detrimental effect on the brookies.

Last edited by Gman; 09-13-2013 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:51 AM   #18
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If things have gone as far as they have then I doubt there would be any detrimental effect on the brookies.
I'm no expert, and that could be true.
The concern would be if angling pressure reduces the numbers of larger bass while increasing population of 8" and smaller fish, the competition for food (insects, invertebrates, small minnows, etc) may increase.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:37 PM   #19
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This is how it all began:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...35/1/index.htm
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:57 PM   #20
vtflyfish
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This should be mandatory reading for all those who fish for brookies.
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