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#201 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Porter Corners, NY
Posts: 804
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#202 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 384
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Quote:
Talking about Lila itself, not adjacent water bodies, you can paddle all of that in about 1 day. The size of Lake Lila is comparable to what you get at Boreas. The time it will take to access fishing spots or land for a day hike will be about the same between the two. The portage to Lila (is it .3 miles?) is easy. I see paddlers taking carts in or carrying their stuff all the time. How long will the portage to Boreas be? They're not letting people drive right up to the water are they? "Boreas will have lousy campsites." How the heck do you know that? Has the DEC even announced where, if any, water-side campsites will be set up? Road-side camping...along the road (hence why it's called road-side), not on the water. I don't know why so many on here are determined to see the glass as half empty on this issue, especially considering that the water hasn't even been poured yet. You would think that based on the way some people complain on this forum that the ADK's is on the verge of becoming a hazardous waste zone... Edit: And by the way, if you think the campsites at Essex Chain of Lakes are "lousy," that suits me just fine. Please continue thinking that and spreading that gouge so that I can continue to enjoy them by myself. |
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#203 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 384
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Quote:
I know that Lila is bigger, but looking at both of them on scaled maps, they don't seem all that different. Lake Lila itself is easily a day-paddle trip, as is Boreas. |
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#204 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Porter Corners, NY
Posts: 804
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Quote:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/107504.html And here: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/76408.html Could it be a typo? I've been to both in the last year or two and Lila just seemed way bigger to me. I haven't checked them on a topo map, but will. |
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#205 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Judging about your questions it sounds like you have not actually read the draft UMP. On my 2nd visit to BP I scoured the shoreline for a nice campsite but pretty much all of it is sprucey, I had difficulty finding a nice lunch spot let alone a nice campsite. It was a tough & scratchy bushwhack just to go pee 150' away from the water! I did, however, camp there that night. Please tell us about your experiences there. Yes the DEC has announced approximate campsite locations - the map is on page 115. |
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#206 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13
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"Boreas will have lousy campsites like Essex Chain & Henderson Lake "
I would tend to agree based on the new campsites and relocated leanto sites I have seen |
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#207 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Best lunch spot was on a rock in the nw arm. Nice place to swim but only from rock. Really no shoreline access anywhere but the dam and the site of the former lodge dock. Will be interesting where they elect to put sites. The nights were incredible concert of loon calls, and the views are exceptional. Fun place to explore and I look forward to getting back. |
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#208 |
Snag Locator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In the Place of the Nettles
Posts: 929
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Not to kick a dead horse...
This article https://www.researchgate.net/publica...04429/download would strongly suggest that the trout in Boreas are likely a heritage strain of wild fish despite past stocking efforts. So the decision not to protect this rare resource by putting adequate distance between the ponds and motorized access again seems ill conceived and uninformed. |
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#209 |
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 312
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If it is such a rare resource, why not just close these artificial waterbodies to all fishing? And, if no heritage strains are generally recognized in stocked waters, what happened here that the stockies didn't interfere with the heritage strain? It would seem to me that 3 miles of hiking and dragging a canoe is a pretty good distance, except for those few people who will get day permits. (Sorry, Researchgate has never worked on my computer, so I can't read the study that was commissioned by TNC, so may be somewhat suspect in terms of bias.)
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#210 | |
Snag Locator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In the Place of the Nettles
Posts: 929
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Quote:
And why close it down? Nowhere does it say that the total population of trout in Boreas is in danger of overfishing. It is in danger of fish pollution from the same type of knucklehead as the little tupper bass stocker getting upset about the pond getting shutdown to fishing as you suggested or some other beef with the 'gubmint'. Distance from driving greatly minimizes this threat but of course where there's a will there's a way. Why didn't stockers dilute the genetics? Can't say for sure but I do know that DEC often stocks different strains in reclaimed and acid recovered ponds to determine which will adapt best. Usually there is a clear winner and that strain will out-compete the other so maybe that scenario happened here. It makes sense that the native strain would win out. Last edited by Creekwader; 09-12-2018 at 05:06 PM.. |
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#211 |
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 312
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As I clearly stated, I am unable to download the report. Thank you for your Herculean effort to facilitate the actual transfer of the information in question, rather than your possibly biased summary. When an agency or an organization contracts researchers to evaluate its projects, it is often subject to suspicion of bias. I refer you to many reports published by the tobacco and mining industries.
If someone around there is unhappy with the regulations, unfortunately even three miles is unlikely to prevent them from doing something. Facilitating access to resources and educating people in wise use of them would go a loo further and not give people the sense that things are being managed by elitists for elitists. |
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#212 |
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 312
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I know of a pond that used to be a one mile hike that is now double that and one that was 100 yards, and it is now about 4 miles. There have been no measurable changes to the fishery in either one that have been reported anywhere, other than the 4 miler now has trout in it do to decline of acidity, and it didn't for 30+ years when the road was still open. Since my interest is in fishing rather than walking, I have been deprived of my recreation in favor of making something more difficult for me and more acceptable to those who don't mind all that additional walking. This doesn't bother me at all when they are natural ponds, and construction would be required to get me to the lake, but this is a man made pond with a road already constructed and which has been in use for years by the elites of the TNC all the way to the pond s. At 67, three miles with a canoe in tow is an endeavor, and shaves about three to four hours off a potential fishing day trip. But I can likely talk to my doctor about the blue hang tag, and then I'll just have to drive further to get the day use ticket.
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#213 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saratoga County, NY
Posts: 168
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Quote:
Don |
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#214 |
Happy camper
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pointe-Claire, Quebec
Posts: 53
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Did you note the car's tag?
Last edited by Titanium Spork; 09-13-2018 at 12:02 AM.. Reason: shorten |
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#215 | |
Moving along
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,294
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Quote:
And do you have any examples of where “education in wise use” is working elsewhere, in regards to easy access? |
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#216 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saratoga County, NY
Posts: 168
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No, sorry I didn't. They got a key to get past the gate. It was locked when I returned there?
Is there a system in place for special access that's been published and available to the general public? That question might be rhetorical as I'm surely capable of discovering it on my own. Maybe start with a call to the ranger assigned to the area. By the way. I was scoping out for possibly skiing in this winter. That climb at the start is pretty long and steep. I might snowshoe. But it will be nice on the outbound. I'll have to wait for enough base over the new rock spread across the road. The road walk is boring and generally downhill after the gate and beyond it I see a lot of poleing will be required. To enjoy this place I will need to get a canoe before I go back; or, wait till February and ski in. Don Last edited by Hear the Footsteps; 09-13-2018 at 08:35 PM.. |
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#217 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 238
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Quote:
I can’t imagine it working for back country ‘ethics’. |
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#218 | |
Kayak-46
![]() Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,993
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Quote:
As for public education: goes nowhere, does nothing. Witness all the people post-holing the heck out of the trails in the High Peaks in spite of prominently displayed signage regarding the mandatory wearing of snowshoes at most trail heads.
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun. |
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#219 | |
Mobster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 969
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Quote:
![]() I wouldn't say education does NOTHING. Without it, it would probably be significantly worse as it does work on some. Then there are those who don't notice it and break the rules out of ignorance and those who do read it or know it and break the rules out of willful disobedience. The latter two are the ones to focus on, and perhaps some of the clueless can be converts, but it's the ones who are willfully disobedient that you will never change no matter how much you educate. Punishment sometimes works, but even that is not 100% effective on those types. It's human nature, so I suggest deal with it or go to Mars. |
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#220 | |
Moving along
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,294
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Quote:
![]() Last edited by Justin; 09-13-2018 at 09:50 PM.. |
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