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Old 05-30-2018, 07:51 PM   #181
Hear the Footsteps
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...As for injecting money into Newcomb's economy it's a long way to go from Boreas to Newcomb...
True, Though not so far from the new development at Exit 29 and from there is easier driving on a faster and straight road.

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Old 05-30-2018, 08:25 PM   #182
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That is correct!. Get the people to stop off in North Hudson, and direct them to Boreas for the "High Peaks Wilderness Experience." Drive right up to the high peaks and on your way back pick up your souvenirs of maple syrup and plastic birch key fobs.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:27 PM   #183
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As I understand it, I think this is more or less what they are aiming for. The parking area at the dam will be very small and I believe have a handicap access. The major parking areas will still be located down the road where the current one is now (maybe more to come). The idea is they wanted people to be able to drop off canoes and gear at the dam, drive and find parking and then walk back in. I think the idea was to keep the parking pile up at the dam to a minimum but also avoid having people wheeling canoes along the road.
In this draft UMP, everybody will be able to drive to within 1 mile of the ponds where there will be a parking area at 4 Corners, so most paddlers and all campers will carry in from there, easy walk for hikers. The road will be gated past there. There will be a parking area with 6 spots 500' of the ponds - 2 spots accessible for those with permit, 4 spots reservable in advance by anyone (day-trippers only, no overnight parking), will have to pick up a key to the gate at the new campground in North Hudson.

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Old 05-30-2018, 09:58 PM   #184
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[QUOTE=dpc34;267879]I will bet that hikers won't be spending a lot of money in Newcomb or North Hudson...they haven't yet....


Ever seen the Stewarts in Long Lake on a summer weekend? Plenty of shopping going on there. Newcomb has no stores and one place to eat (soon to be two, when the owners of the Hoot Owl Inn open their restaurant just up the road) so likely no impact there.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:59 PM   #185
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What I'm saying is once you venture a 1/4 mile from a road, besides the noise, there's little difference in character between what we call wilderness and wild forest. I'm not a fan of the noise, or the extra junk that motorized vehicles can bring, so I favor wilderness... but we have to realize sometimes it's a very thin line that separates them*.

*the other instance I don't agree with my own statement is water. Motor boats bring an extra layer of noise, pollution and wake which changes the character for other forms of recreation. I also feel hikers, skiers, and bikes sharing roads/trails with motor vehicles is not always a very safe or enjoyable experience.
Ah, I understand now. I agree with you. Especially with the motor boats. One little 4hp outboard can ruin the peace and quiet for everyone on the lake. I saw some folks on cedar river flow last year with an electric motor. That was pretty great.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:24 PM   #186
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I will bet that hikers won't be spending a lot of money in Newcomb or North Hudson...they haven't yet....but people that own those snow machines will and have..
This is true. The town of North Hudson does very little to attract hikers, campers, & fishermen. Examples...

The state owned & western public right-of-way trail to Bass Lake (just minutes from Exit 29) is still unmarked with no signs indicating it as such. This public access is also often blocked by a parked tractor trailer, whom its owner seems to think it is their own private parking spot to park their trailer, and effectively blocking & discouraging anyone who may want to “hike” this public trail to Bass Lake from this side.

Further... There are in fact established (hiking) trails to Brothers Pond, Howard Pond, Munson Pond, & Pine Pond, but yet they are also not marked with no official signs or parking area, or show up on today’s maps.

There is also an old road (which is also public right of way) that leads up along Walker Brook into the southern Dix Wilderness, with fantastic views from Nippletop, Niagara, & Camels Hump, yet this access still remains unmarked with no signs, or official parking, and is thus also largely overlooked.

And let’s not forget the fact that the Hammond Pond/Bass Lake/Moose Mountain Pond trailhead on Ensign Pond Rd is not plowed during winter.

It seems pretty clear to me that the town of North Hudson does not really care about hiking, camping, fishing, snowshoeing, & skiing tourism, but is much more concerned about motorized tourism.

Last edited by Justin; 05-31-2018 at 12:16 AM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:10 PM   #187
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*the other instance I don't agree with my own statement is water. Motor boats bring an extra layer of noise, pollution and wake which changes the character for other forms of recreation. I also feel hikers, skiers, and bikes sharing roads/trails with motor vehicles is not always a very safe or enjoyable experience.
Vibram soled boots tear up trails so maybe all the high peaks should just be off limits.

I am not opposed to no motors where that is logical, but a few years ago it was Eighth Lake, and that is right next to RT 28, so the idea of reducing noise was absurd. And since these are "Ponds", it is implied that they are smaller so a motor should not be needed, or if the less able bodied wanted one, it should be limited to electric. 10 horsepower limits also reduce damage to shorelines, and noise, but again, looking at these ponds motors are really unnecessary. Elk Lake fishers manage quite well without motors. But then I am extremely bothered by the ring tones on Cell phones, so be sure to leave yours home!

In the City of Rochester, despite the fact that most streets have sidewalks, the majority of pedestrians walk in the street, and we don't have people being hit everyday. I doubt you will see the level of traffic an urban street gets in a day at Boreas Ponds. Bikes on city streets are less than enjoyable but that is because the majority of the riders only follow traffic laws when they are convenient to them.

Last edited by Lucky13; 05-31-2018 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:14 PM   #188
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d plastic birch key fobs.
Made in China.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:19 PM   #189
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This is true. The town of North Hudson does very little to attract hikers, campers, & fishermen. Examples...

The state owned & western public right-of-way trail to Bass Lake (just minutes from Exit 29) is still unmarked with no signs indicating it as such. This public access is also often blocked by a parked tractor trailer, whom its owner seems to think it is their own private parking spot to park their trailer, and effectively blocking & discouraging anyone who may want to “hike” this public trail to Bass Lake from this side.

Further... There are in fact established (hiking) trails to Brothers Pond, Howard Pond, Munson Pond, & Pine Pond, but yet they are also not marked with no official signs or parking area, or show up on today’s maps.

There is also an old road (which is also public right of way) that leads up along Walker Brook into the southern Dix Wilderness, with fantastic views from Nippletop, Niagara, & Camels Hump, yet this access still remains unmarked with no signs, or official parking, and is thus also largely overlooked.

And let’s not forget the fact that the Hammond Pond/Bass Lake/Moose Mountain Pond trailhead on Ensign Pond Rd is not plowed during winter.

It seems pretty clear to me that the town of North Hudson does not really care about hiking, camping, fishing, snowshoeing, & skiing tourism, but is much more concerned about motorized tourism.
It sound s to me like they agree with the "park outside the blue line and walk in" approach to hiking, if they are not putting anywhere to park and no signage. You can add Vanderwalker Pond and even Cheny pond to your list the last time I was through there, nearly impossible to find either and nowhere to park except on the shoulders.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:37 PM   #190
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Cheney Pond has a sign on Blue Ridge Road (unless someone removed it), and also has easy access via a short dirt road. Last time I was there (last fall) I carried out lots of trash left behind at the lean-to.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:10 PM   #191
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We were there also last fall/late summer......and did the same thing. Enough trash to fill two Hornbecks all from the lean-to. Broken chairs, and a floating beer cooler were some of the items left behind that we took out. Plenty of bear tracks in the sand. Gee, I wonder why?
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:31 PM   #192
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nothing new about Cheney Pond...been that way for years...the only thing that stops that is the condition of the dirt road going into it..the more rain the less people...one of these days we(me included) hikers and water activity people will realize that we don't spend a lot of money where we are going....ah..Stewarts in Long Lake...at one time(over a 20year period) I had a hunting camp in the Long Lake - Tupper Lake area..we tried to spend money at Kickerville for years--just to support the locals...we all know how that ended up...only store in town with great ice cream and coffee..year round..we greenies can stand on our podium...but we better start spending money where it can be counted...the motorized group is ready to step in...enjoy...again not meant to offend anyone...live in the GF area and have been part of a hunting club since the early 70s..sorry I will shut up now...enjoy..at least 7 different clubs...
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:22 PM   #193
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Cheney Pond has a sign on Blue Ridge Road (unless someone removed it), and also has easy access via a short dirt road. Last time I was there (last fall) I carried out lots of trash left behind at the lean-to.
The last time we were there, there was no lean to. But I wonder why people who are so into long hikes go to the easy access sites, except for fulfillment of prophecies. I am all for rangers handing out tickets, I was sternly admonished by Lilian on how to keep a clean camp about 30 years ago in the Plains, and have not gotten a negative word since, except for locking my boat at a pond after the State started confiscating them, rather than tearing the trail up more by hauling it in and out every AM and PM during my trip. And, again I say, I had to take a 12 hour course to get a hunting license, maybe it is time for an ADK user stamp requirement and some pre-use education could be done, and there would be more funding to hire rangers to weed out the "undesirables" (except that it is my sense that for many of the posters on here, everyone except themselves is undesirable.)

There is another post running where the individual indicates tree cutting going on at South Lake in the West Canadas, bad behavior is not limited to easy access sites.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:28 PM   #194
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I am also going to really step in it and hypothesize that a lot of trash at easy access sites originates with local youths who go to the sites when they are less busy to "party". I am of the opinion that all the broken glass in the shallows of Horseshoe Lake got there that way. When you see this stuff happening, you have to drop the quarter to the local constables.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:17 PM   #195
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If they locate the campsites properly, monitor traffic, provide appropriate toilets and maintenance, and educate the public about good LNT practices, it might survive and look the same in 20 years as it does now. If left to the public, it will be a mess.
Is the situation at Boreas Ponds really all that different from what exists at Lake Lila?

The portage from the parking lot to the water itself isn't that long. A good number of people go there to hunt, camp and fish, often moving in by water. I've rarely seen the that area overpopulated and have seen few signs of abuse.

We have other areas where the access is similar and everything has turned out to be okay. That's why I get a little fed up with all this premature fear-mongering.
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:03 PM   #196
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Is the situation at Boreas Ponds really all that different from what exists at Lake Lila?

The portage from the parking lot to the water itself isn't that long. A good number of people go there to hunt, camp and fish, often moving in by water. I've rarely seen the that area overpopulated and have seen few signs of abuse.

We have other areas where the access is similar and everything has turned out to be okay. That's why I get a little fed up with all this premature fear-mongering.
Unless premature fear mongering is just more "Use allowed for me but no one else."
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Old 06-01-2018, 02:39 PM   #197
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Is the situation at Boreas Ponds really all that different from what exists at Lake Lila?

The portage from the parking lot to the water itself isn't that long. A good number of people go there to hunt, camp and fish, often moving in by water. I've rarely seen the that area overpopulated and have seen few signs of abuse.

We have other areas where the access is similar and everything has turned out to be okay. That's why I get a little fed up with all this premature fear-mongering.
I think they are different in a couple of ways. I think the majority of people go to Lake Lila to visit Lake Lila. I wonder how many people will see Boreas as a basecamp to the High Peaks? The parking lot there holds ~24 cars. I think if it's full, you have a long hike on your hands, although I've always found a spot.

Lake Lila is over 4 times the size of boreas ponds, so the sites, canoes and campers have less of an impact on the area and on fellow campers, although I don't know how may sites are planned around Boreas.

Lastly, that hike to the water isn't really conducive to a rolling canoe cart. But I did see a guy with a wheelbarrow full of beer going down the trail the last time I was there, so where there's a will there's a way. Guess we'll have to wait and see what unfolds. I hope you're right.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:02 PM   #198
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I think they are different in a couple of ways. I think the majority of people go to Lake Lila to visit Lake Lila. I wonder how many people will see Boreas as a basecamp to the High Peaks? The parking lot there holds ~24 cars. I think if it's full, you have a long hike on your hands, although I've always found a spot.

Lake Lila is over 4 times the size of boreas ponds, so the sites, canoes and campers have less of an impact on the area and on fellow campers, although I don't know how may sites are planned around Boreas.

Lastly, that hike to the water isn't really conducive to a rolling canoe cart.

I think you're nitpicking here.

The water bodies themselves (Lake Lila and Boreas Ponds) are very similar in size.

I can't imagine many people going to Boreas to try and get onto the High Peaks, unless there are access trails I don't know about. I think the main attraction for both is the water and camping opportunities. For a lesser portion, the attraction is hunting opportunities.

Both areas have relatively easy and quick access to the water. What's the portage to Lila? 1-2 tenths of a mile, if that?

Lake Lila has done just fine over the years, as have other areas with similar access.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:36 PM   #199
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I think you're nitpicking here.

The water bodies themselves (Lake Lila and Boreas Ponds) are very similar in size.

I can't imagine many people going to Boreas to try and get onto the High Peaks, unless there are access trails I don't know about. I think the main attraction for both is the water and camping opportunities. For a lesser portion, the attraction is hunting opportunities.

Both areas have relatively easy and quick access to the water. What's the portage to Lila? 1-2 tenths of a mile, if that?

Lake Lila has done just fine over the years, as have other areas with similar access.
1 accessible lean-to + up to 5 campsites are planned for BP.

I would need at least 2 days to paddle the perimeter of Lila + Shingle Shanty + Beaver River. I can do the perimeter of Boreas + paddle up the inlet in half a day - Lila has way more paddling opportunities including carries to other waterbodies. 0.3 mile carry to Lila is about as much effort as 1 mile on a dirt road to Boreas. The only thing Boreas has over Lila is the High Peaks view. Lila has many nice campsites, Boreas will have lousy campsites like Essex Chain & Henderson Lake so after the 1st couple of years there will be fewer campers. Gulf Brook Rd will have some car-camping sites, that's why some folks are comparing it with Cedar River Flow/Moose River Plains.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:40 PM   #200
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I think you're nitpicking here.

The water bodies themselves (Lake Lila and Boreas Ponds) are very similar in size.

I can't imagine many people going to Boreas to try and get onto the High Peaks, unless there are access trails I don't know about. I think the main attraction for both is the water and camping opportunities. For a lesser portion, the attraction is hunting opportunities.

Both areas have relatively easy and quick access to the water. What's the portage to Lila? 1-2 tenths of a mile, if that?

Lake Lila has done just fine over the years, as have other areas with similar access.
Yeah, you're probably right. I hope you are. The size though -- from what I can see, "Boreas Ponds, the namesake of the tract, form a 320-acre body of water" whereas Lake Lila is 1446 acres. That's a considerable difference.
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