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Old 04-22-2011, 03:13 PM   #1
paddlewheel
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Law & Order...

Anybody been following Mr. Cunningham's dilemma in North Creek?

Seems the godfather of commercial rafting up yonder is being taken to court for reckless endangerment....

Anybody remember the good old days when you got your own sorry ass into some nasty white water and the only person you wanted to slap in head was your own self.............

I hate people that want to get monetary gain to compensate for their own misgivings...

Lord..why are there so many jerks on this planet...? How come you didn't think that one out?.......I'd follow you closer if you could just explain that to me........
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Old 04-22-2011, 04:38 PM   #2
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Humm...how about links and references or you might just be talking to yourself
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Old 04-22-2011, 04:49 PM   #3
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http://adirondackexplorer.org/out-ta...-endangerment/
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:07 PM   #4
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Humm...how about links and references or you might just be talking to yourself
Check out Adirondack Life....June issue '11....maybe you can dig up an online thing...

Do I have to do your homework for you?

Damn kids these days...they can't even wipe their own nasty bottoms..

I guess they need a GPS to find it..............
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:49 PM   #5
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I'm not possessed of the facts in this case but I am also one who is sick and tired of people suing others for their own lack of judgment. "You should have told me, and now I'm going to sue your sorry behind!"

If every law school in this country didn't produce another graduate for the next ten years we'd still have way too many lawyers.

In Lake George, can't you rent a very fast boat, with no boating experience whatsoever, and drive around the lake without benefit of a guide?
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:11 PM   #6
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"The charges of second-degree reckless endangerment stem from two separate incidents last month. Details of the charges are contained in court documents filed by Forest Ranger Steven Ovitt."

I didn't know he was being sued as well... but I think the criminal charges have to be addressed first.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:31 PM   #7
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I know there were a couple of incidents last year he was involved in and do agree that there are to many of these stupid law suits but if you prmise something that someone pays for be prepaired to follow threw with it. From reading the 4 ratings and seeing 2 of the 4 being negative sounds like there may be an issue

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio..._New_York.html

Excert from Explorer

On August 10, Bromley “falsely” stated to Greg Kaasman, an employee of Longacre Expeditions, that the law does not require licensed guides to accompany customers on whitewater trips through the Hudson Gorge, according to Ovitt. The document says Bromley “persuaded Mr. Kaasman to permit such unguided trip by 11 children who were participating in a program sponsored by Longacre Expeditions.”

On August 12, Cunningham allegedly failed to provide a licensed guide to a customer named Robert Carson. Ovitt says Cunningham, “after being notified by Mr. Carson that he had no experience in whitewater on any type of raft, kayak or other boat, did importune Mr. Carson to attempt the trip in an inflatable kayak giving no instructions to Mr. Carson.”

In both cases, the court documents allege that the defendants engaged in reckless behavior “which created a substantial risk of serious physical injury to others.”

Sounds like there could be something to it.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:32 PM   #8
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See, that was easy No gps required.

Just a link OR a reference, not to much to ask. Now everyone can read the same news reports and debate in a civil manner.

Sounds like the company is not doing what people are paying them for. Taking people's money and then bailing out on them sounds reckless. I would be suprised if they file a civil suit. The company should have refunded the money and they may not have had the same level of complaints.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:37 AM   #9
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I don't know all the facts but as a responsible person I would never leave anyone behind whether it was on a hike, a bike or on the water. A similar thing happened to me a couple weeks ago when some individuals where having difficulty on a hike and the hike leader just abandoned the lagers.
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:48 AM   #10
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24,000 people went down the Hudson River Gorge in rubber rafts last year.

$80.00 buck a pop..

Besides Cunninham's crew there is 10 other outfitters...

Just with the percencentage of odds, something is bound to go wrong..

Most of the people that do this are from NYC or out of staters and a large percentage of them are not woods smart outdoors folks....they're just temporary thrill seekers..

That freaking river must be choked with rafters on the weekends or even other times.

It makes me crazy to think about it.

What a way to exploit and ruin a beautiful, once remote area..

The whole deal has just gone to far....It's really scary.
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Old 04-23-2011, 09:30 AM   #11
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I've got a funny story about the "Gorge"....

Back in the late 70's, after many trips doing the white water derby at North Creek & running to the Glen, a couple of buddies and myself figured we were ready to shoot the big time and run the Indian, the Gorge onto North River.

It was me & my friend John in my Old Town Tripper and Lew in a kayak.

We didn't have a clue where to put in...logically we figured right on the back side of Lake Abanakee Dam...We didn't know there was a drop off (falls) before the spot where your supposed to launch.

The guy in the kayak went first....then he came upon this little shute where the drop off was & he went over the edge & landed upside down in this pool where some poor guy was having a nice time flyfishing...He just shook his head & packed up & left. Us guys in the tripper were luckier...the shute was narrow & we just got stuck in it & had to portage.

We proceeded down to the junction with the Hudson...once again with the kayak taking the lead. We got a little past the ledges & Lew in the kayak was sitting on a boulder in the middle of the river....his boat wrappped around another boulder, smashed to pieces...We eddied in and he jumped in our canoe & we rode the the rest of the way out like that...

We swamped real good in Harris Rift...with two of us winding up on one side of the river & John with the canoe on the other...

But we made it to North River...in some sad shape but it was a day to remember...... That's for sure.........

By the way....we were the only ones on that river in early June all day long...
and it was a Saturday...things sure have changed, huh?

Last edited by paddlewheel; 04-23-2011 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:45 PM   #12
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A similar thing happened to me a couple weeks ago when some individuals where having difficulty on a hike and the hike leader just abandoned the lagers.
Now that is inexcuseable, leaving perfectly good beer behind.
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:51 PM   #13
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Most of the people that do this are from NYC or out of staters
I think you're just assuming that Tom ... just sayin' ...
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Old 04-23-2011, 02:03 PM   #14
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I think you're just assuming that Tom ... just sayin' ...
I really don't think so, Kevin.....It's like skiing...75% of those folks are downstaters or Jerseyites.............. The "Adirondack playgrounds " are tourist attractions....tourists are not people familiar with the back country usually....They are folks with bucks that travel to have a day of fun filled expensive entertainment & call it an Adirondack experience.

Think about it...if you're the average yuppie family...( three kids & a golden retreiver & two cats).....that's five times eighty bucks..(with out the pets).to ride the river...more if you ski....who can afford that these days but the privilaged ones?.............and they don't come locally much.........

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Old 04-23-2011, 03:02 PM   #15
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I think Tom is right that most of the rafters that sign up for these trips are non-outdoors people (not sure where they come from) but I think that makes the act of leaving them alone or sending them off unguided even more inexcusable. Plain and simple...its negligence. These people don't know; they see the glossy advertising brochure claiming 'no experience needed' and they jump on the chance fully expecting to taken care of because that is what is advertised. If you got on an airplane and the pilots took off on you just before take-off tossing you the keys on the way out the door I'm sure you'd want the chance to sue for your losses. If the charges are true, these guys deserve to be sued.
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:27 PM   #16
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I think Tom is right that most of the rafters that sign up for these trips are non-outdoors people (not sure where they come from) but I think that makes the act of leaving them alone or sending them off unguided even more inexcusable. Plain and simple...its negligence. These people don't know; they see the glossy advertising brochure claiming 'no experience needed' and they jump on the chance fully expecting to taken care of because that is what is advertised. If you got on an airplane and the pilots took off on you just before take-off tossing you the keys on the way out the door I'm sure you'd want the chance to sue for your losses. If the charges are true, these guys deserve to be sued.
I think these guys just got overloaded & the cash was coming in smooth & even & they never figured something would upset their perfect money catching world until some unhappy sue dickweed decided to raise a ruckus....that's all it takes in this day in age...People don't want to take responsibilities for their own welfare......things didn't go well .....let's take the man in charge to court...It's not my fault that I'm a dumb ass sh!tbird..............
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:44 PM   #17
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If I come up and paddle for a week, that's not considered a tourist is it? I don't want to be associated with these whiny day tripping rafters! BTW some of those rafters come from CT to, as I know a group them.

Happy Paddling
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:51 PM   #18
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If I come up and paddle for a week, that's not considered a tourist is it? I don't want to be associated with these whiny day tripping rafters! BTW some of those rafters come from CT to, as I know a group them.

Happy Paddling
One thing I know is they ain't local boys..

We know better....tourism feeds the local folks....but knuckleheads ...what can you do?....It ain't legal to shoot 'em.......

unfortunately what brings money to the Adk's is caravans with money & jerks by the busload...........whatya going to do?
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Old 04-23-2011, 05:06 PM   #19
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I suppose that when i hake or paddle an placwe but the Adirondacks, residents pretty much feel the same way about me.

Now that I no longer live inside the blue line, I suppose that I qualify as a tourist as well.

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Old 04-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #20
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looks like the judge kicked it out.....just saying
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