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Old 01-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #1
poconoron
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Five-year plan for "managing" bobcats

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally have never even seen a bobcat in the ADKs. I have seen several in the wilds of Pennsylvania, however.

Local people near my place close to Piseco Road (some of whom trap beaver, coyotes, etc.) tell me they haven't come across a bobcat in many a year.

What is up with this "managing" bobcats plan - other then catering to a very few trappers or hunters?

Even if there are 5,000 bobcats in the state (dubious IMHO), why is that # too much?

Bad policy in my opinion from a DEC which is supposedly managing our conservation resources.


http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/20...ling-more.html
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:30 PM   #2
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I don't think the lengthened seasons will amount to many more bobcats being killed. They're around, but it's pretty rare to see one. I've only seen one, but I see tracks quite a bit.

It's funny that the author writes a pretty negative article about the proposed plan, then says he's not taking a stand one way or the other.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:24 PM   #3
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Some of the comments sounded scary when added together
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:04 PM   #4
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Some of the comments sounded scary when added together
Why?

Why even have a season on them? You can't eat them. They're not a nuisance. The countryside is not over run with them (just the opposite). Who wears fur anymore....and if you did who wears bobcat? Never heard a woman bragging about her fine bobcat coat.

Its not like shooting a deer, duck or coyote. It's just killing for the sake of it.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:34 PM   #5
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When I was a kid there was a bounty in NY on bobcats. $15 or something like that I think was paid. As I recall they clipped the ears to show the bounty was paid. I found one floating in Black River when I was fishing, legs bound together with wire, ears clipped. The bounty ended in 1971. There was also a bounty on porcupines at the time - 50 cents for two front paws.

I have heard bobcats a few times in the woods. I'll never forget the first time when I must have been no older than 8 or so. My dad had killed a large deer a couple of miles back in the woods. He came out to get my mother and me to help drag it out. Since it was after dark my job was to hold the flashlight so they could see. Of course I didn't stay near, I kept running out ahead too far. Suddenly the most blood curdling scream you ever could imagine came very loud and very near. After that there was no problem with me getting more than a couple of feet ahead on the trail.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:01 PM   #6
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I've seen 3 bobcats in the Adks. Bobcats and other fur-bearers are a renewable resource that is managed thru seasons and bag limits. Many people make use of this resource to provide a extra income while enjoying the outdoors. Without hunting and trapping, some would say, the populations would reach the carrying capacity of the locale, but in doing so the surplus would be wasted to disease ,starvation and predation. Why waste?

Bobcats do make a nice coat,BTW... http://www.usafoxx.com/productdetail...gId=-792&fpg=1
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:32 PM   #7
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In recent years, sportsmen have harvested between four hundred and five hundred bobcats a year. DEC estimates that fewer than a hundred additional bobcats a year will be killed if its plan takes effect.

If that estimate is accurate, the there won't be much of an additional economic boost, either - so we loop back to the point that this seems pretty unnecessary.

I'm not opposed to hunting or trapping per se - but I'm no fan of hunting/trapping just for the fun of it.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:13 PM   #8
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I have only seen a couple of Bobcats in the wild . Very cool animals and I agree , the population is small enough that an extended season is not warranted in my opinion.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:21 PM   #9
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I would say I've seen 4 bobcats in the wild , always a noteworthy sighting. I trap but I don't normally target them. I did skin one for a friend of mine this past fall, and I can tell you I wouldn't care to eat the meat, also wouldn't care to eat coyote, fox, fisher or raccoon. ...And I doubt if the local food pantry or kitchen would want these carcasses either. Have any of you trappers out there tried eating these species. I do use the animal I trap for the pelt(to sell)(also the scent glands) and carcasses are used for bait.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:26 PM   #10
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I don't trap and while I'd love to see them in person, probably would not shoot one if I came across it hunting, but I'm fine with the DEC's plan. The DEC seems to have done a good job in managing bear - with higher numbers taken but with an expanding population.

Also, I have seen references online to people eating them. I don't imagine them being very appetizing as I've heard coyote are. I imagine its a southern thing - if you can stomach possum I'm sure everything else looks good to!
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:25 AM   #11
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We ate raccoon and coyote when I was a kid, few other things too including dog. You would be surprised what you will eat when you are hungry and how good it tastes.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #12
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So seasoned just right they tasted pretty good?
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:53 PM   #13
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Know a couple of people who attest to the good taste of dog. One friend said "...it was good - not good like you could stomach it - good like give me seconds". My chinese friend tells me it's called something like "fragrant meat" and that the story is that it was the only meat good enough to entice Buddha down from the heavens. So based on that (and that someone else online said it tasted good) I would give coyote a try at least once if I have the opportunity.

Bobcat I'm less inclined to try since one of previously mentioned friends tried cat and said it was pretty bad - same with donkey.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:43 AM   #14
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Only saw a bobcat once in Adirondacks but it was a somewhat memorable encounter. I was driving down Chazy Lake Road in winter having just snowshoed Lyon Mountain. It was snowing and the roads were all icy. On top of that it was 6 at night so it was dark and the bobcat was sitting in the middle of the road. I slowed down a little, honked the horn. It just sad there. I flashed the lights. It still just sat there. I hit the brakes what I thought was pretty gently but I slid off the road, into a snow bank. Fortunately I and the car were fine and I missed a mailbox by inches, but it was a pain in the butt to shovel myself out with a hiking pole. It took me 10 minutes to shovel myself out and right as I'm getting back into the car, I look up and the bobcat is still just sitting there watching me. I wasn't about to let a bobcat beat me in a game of chicken and put me through all that for nothing. I approached him, pole in in hand, and got about ten feet from him before he finally took off.

Lessons learned: Always have a snow-shovel ready to go in car and look out for chicken-playing bobcats.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:24 PM   #15
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Folks don't see many bobcat because they are elusive, not because they aren't there. They are cats. Sneaky, stealthy, quiet. Wildlife biologists know how to find them because they have training and education related to the species. Hunters and trappers who target them are able to be successful for mostly the same reason, they have the experience and knowledge to successfully find them. I think many weekend outdoor enthusiasts could go many a year, decades, or a lifetime without ever seeing one because they aren't familiar with the proper habitat, and how to locate them.

Hunting seasons and bag limits do regulate the population, but moreover give wildlife specialists an idea of population based on the take every season. If the estimates are of a population of approx 5000 individuals I would be rather satisfied with those figures if the season take was consistantly 400-500 bobcats. That would indicate about a 10% harvest rate which is within the range for responsible population management. You can't keep having 500 animals harvested year after year for decades, if as some have claimed, there is little to no existing population.

They are definately out there, and in numbers. Not seeing one is not indicative of population, just that they are sly and elusive.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:05 PM   #16
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Well said...
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:18 PM   #17
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How was the bobcat population regulated pre-European? Just curious. How do bobcats and coyotes interact, if at all? Is a large bobcat population aiding the demise of the spruce grouse?
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:52 PM   #18
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I'd be very cautious of eating coy, bobcat or any carrion type predator that wasn't professionally butchered.

I've never seen one alive in the woods either.

Regulation is clearly a post-Columbian term and I would doubt native american's regulated or could even attempt to regulate what was killed. Quite frankly the population of humans probably didn't warrant a development of resource management except for periods of hunger when they killed off the competition. However, the Bobcat is universally revered in native american cultures but that doesn't mean it wasn't hunted.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:23 AM   #19
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I'd be very cautious of eating coy, bobcat or any carrion type predator that wasn't professionally butchered.

I've never seen one alive in the woods either.

Regulation is clearly a post-Columbian term and I would doubt native american's regulated or could even attempt to regulate what was killed. Quite frankly the population of humans probably didn't warrant a development of resource management except for periods of hunger when they killed off the competition. However, the Bobcat is universally revered in native american cultures but that doesn't mean it wasn't hunted.
Actually, there was a bit of "management" by the Original Nations (I prefer this term to Native Americans). In the case of the plains people, who were hunter-gatherers, they moved often, to follow the bison who migrated, but also to avoid using up the resources (game, tipi poles, prairie turnips, etc) in a particular spot.

As for the more stationary people who were also planters and harvesters, they did "manage" the habitat by clearing sections for grazing to attract and retain game.

However, in all cases the mantra was to never take more then was absolutely needed. That changed when the Europeans arrived and began trading for pelts.

Predators were not demonized because the people knew that they were an important cog in the system, thinning out the weak and unhealthy and preventing over population of the prey species which often led to starvation as well as disease.

All the prey animals were considered powerful "medicine" by the various Nations, Bear, Wolf and Eagle being the most elevated by the majority of the tribes. Coyote was recognized as "The trickster" by the Sioux as a result of it's cunningness.

Interestingly enough, another creature that was revered by many Nations was the turtle, especially in the east and particularly among the Nations that were members of the Iroquois Confederation.
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #20
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Isn't Inktomi, the spider, central to Lakota cosmology?
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