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Old 05-25-2014, 07:58 PM   #1
bmike-vt
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Carrying a bike

I assume that no bikes in wilderness means no riding. And I'll extend this to trails where MTB is posted as a no no, even in wild forest.

And I'll go a step further and assume it also means no walking a bike along a trail.

I'll assume carrying is OK? Like on ones back?
Racers do this on the AZT when they carry down and back out of the Grand Canyon.

Would this fly in the ADKs in order to stitch together some dirt roads and trail in order to make a loop work or to connect some dirt roads and legal trail?

I'm not really keen on carrying my bike AND gear for any sort of mileage - its hard enough to push / pull / lift it along during the normal course of trail and forest road riding. But I have a few ideas... And as a packraft is out of the budget for now.... And as my wife notes that despite my slow speed I do have a propensity for suffering....
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:59 PM   #2
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Sorry no, carrying a bicycle through "Adirondack Wilderness" is not allowed, and does not fly.
There are many options to "stitch together a loop" through the Adirondacks where it is perfectly legal with a bicycle. Unfortunately, Wilderness Areas do not apply.
That's kind of like saying: "I'm only carrying my chainsaw."
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:44 AM   #3
John H Swanson
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Iirc when reading the laws I noticed that the definition of the word bicycle include "with a saddle seat". So if you want to split hairs you can remove the seat and it is no longer, legally, a bicycle according to the DEC. Now some folks might say this response is stupid and others might consider how long they can ride up on the pedals.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Sorry no, carrying a bicycle through "Adirondack Wilderness" is not allowed, and does not fly.
There are many options to "stitch together a loop" through the Adirondacks where it is perfectly legal with a bicycle. Unfortunately, Wilderness Areas do not apply.
That's kind of like saying: "I'm only carrying my chainsaw."
Can you point to statute, law, bylaw, or precedent?

Can you also show me said 'loops' that you have in mind? There are lots of really nice places that you can ride to. And there are lots of nice places to walk through. It would be nice to be able to go without motors for a couple of trips.
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:27 PM   #5
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Sorry no, carrying a bicycle through "Adirondack Wilderness" is not allowed, and does not fly.
There are many options to "stitch together a loop" through the Adirondacks where it is perfectly legal with a bicycle. Unfortunately, Wilderness Areas do not apply.
That's kind of like saying: "I'm only carrying my chainsaw."
It's not at all like saying 'I'm only carrying a chainsaw...'

IMHO a bicycle is more like a handsaw, which I assume many keep in their backcountry kit. Or similar to a kayak or canoe. A non fossil fuel burning quiet human powered device used for tranpostation.

A chainsaw would be more like a dirt bike or motorcycle.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:14 PM   #6
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AFAIK you can legally push your bike along a trail in Wilderness areas if the pedals are removed.

Ideas of where to ride:

http://thomannengineering.com/softwa...nbikeguide.pdf

Last edited by montcalm; 05-27-2014 at 08:51 PM..
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Old 05-27-2014, 10:15 PM   #7
Justin
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Originally Posted by bmike-vt View Post
It's not at all like saying 'I'm only carrying a chainsaw...'

IMHO a bicycle is more like a handsaw, which I assume many keep in their backcountry kit. Or similar to a kayak or canoe. A non fossil fuel burning quiet human powered device used for tranpostation.

A chainsaw would be more like a dirt bike or motorcycle.
Ok fair enough.
You asked, I replied.
Do what you will.
Good luck to you.
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Old 05-27-2014, 11:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by montcalm View Post
AFAIK you can legally push your bike along a trail in Wilderness areas if the pedals are removed.

Ideas of where to ride:

http://thomannengineering.com/softwa...nbikeguide.pdf
thanks. thats a great guide. i have done several through trips on road, and 1 through the MRP, mapping several options for trails (1 is in your book, to wood hull lake / mckeever)

in the end, i want to connect a few remote sections that i can legally ride to, but cannot cross, hence my question.

and, if i do get a pack raft, there are some spots that one could ride to, disassemble the bike, and then paddle out to another connecting road or trail.

or even just ride out to camp / paddle and then ride home... (lake lila would be a destination for me). if one can drive into a put in, one would think riding in would be OK. i guess i could lock up in the parking lot...

if i extend that idea further, carrying the bike (even on a raft) across might not be OK. doesn't make much sense in my mind.

i'll have to contact a ranger.
thanks for the thoughts.
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Old 05-27-2014, 11:52 PM   #9
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Ok fair enough.
You asked, I replied.
Do what you will.
Good luck to you.
not looking to 'do what i will'.
looking for statute, law, code, precedent, to make an informed decision.
not looking to poach, piss off, anger, or do anything illegal or even impolite.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:04 PM   #10
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Using chainsaws and bicycles in wilderness areas is forbidden, so the comparison seems apt.

But as far as I can tell, state land regulations only forbid operating a bicycle in a wilderness (DEC regulation 196.7). On the other hand, the regs explicitly forbid both operating and possessing a chainsaw or other motorized equipment (196.8).

So my guess would be, if you are legitimately just carrying a bike through a wilderness area and not riding it, you'd be fine. With all the usual caveats of not trusting everything you read on the internet, etc.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:17 PM   #11
montcalm
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Using chainsaws and bicycles in wilderness areas is forbidden, so the comparison seems apt.

But as far as I can tell, state land regulations only forbid operating a bicycle in a wilderness (DEC regulation 196.7). On the other hand, the regs explicitly forbid both operating and possessing a chainsaw or other motorized equipment (196.8).
I don't even think you need to carry it. Rolling/pushing it is legal. The operation part involves the crank and pedals. Take them off, throw them in a bag and push and no one will bother you. It's now essentially the same thing as a canoe cart.
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Old 05-28-2014, 08:34 PM   #12
Justin
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... state land regulations only forbid operating a bicycle in a wilderness (DEC regulation 196.7).
Looks like I was misinformed. I apologize for giving false information.
Still, If I see someone carrying or doing something that does not belong in a wilderness area, I say something.
Happy and safe travels.
Peace.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:22 AM   #13
bmike-vt
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Originally Posted by paddles View Post
Using chainsaws and bicycles in wilderness areas is forbidden, so the comparison seems apt.

But as far as I can tell, state land regulations only forbid operating a bicycle in a wilderness (DEC regulation 196.7). On the other hand, the regs explicitly forbid both operating and possessing a chainsaw or other motorized equipment (196.8).

So my guess would be, if you are legitimately just carrying a bike through a wilderness area and not riding it, you'd be fine. With all the usual caveats of not trusting everything you read on the internet, etc.
thanks for that link. exactly what i was looking for.

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Old 05-29-2014, 08:54 PM   #14
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It's still a bike so it doesn't belong there just face it and ride somewhere else and quit trying to bend the rules as much as you can
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:17 PM   #15
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It's still a bike so it doesn't belong there just face it and ride somewhere else and quit trying to bend the rules as much as you can
Internet forums never cease to amaze me with their wisdom.

Who says it doesn't belong? You? God? The State?

The definition of Wilderness by NYS says you don't 'belong'. "Man is a visitor who does not remain." And that's just some legal mumbo jumbo to make someone feel good.

Bottom line:

If you push a bike with pedals (a bike that can be ridden as such) through a Wilderness area how is Ranger to take it that you didn't just jump off and start pushing when you saw him/her?

If you disable the bike from being pedaled as such by removing the pedals or crank, then it is a lot more likely that a Ranger or other reasonable person will see you as respecting the rules and pushing the bike rather than riding and pushing when caught. No one can remove pedals or the crank quick enough not to get caught when seen. It shows foresight.

And as far as the trail is concerned, pushing a disabled bike is no different than canoe cart in terms of trail impact - which is completely legal in Wilderness areas. There have been reports, and some which I've read on this very forum, which indicate people have done such things and the DEC was AOK with it.

If you want to ridicule someone for trying to understanding the law, it's limitations and why it is there, then maybe you ought to take up a profession in politics. Someone who didn't have any respect would have just gone ahead and done what they wanted instead of taking the time to understand the rules.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:41 PM   #16
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There are as many miles of roads and trails you could ever ask for outside of the wilderness area why can't people just be content and ride there instead of wanting to go through the areas there not supposed to, I don't have a big problem with people riding bike but is it really necessary to take a bike through that certain area? What's wrong with the rest of the trails and roads?
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:33 AM   #17
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There are as many miles of roads and trails you could ever ask for outside of the wilderness area why can't people just be content and ride there instead of wanting to go through the areas there not supposed to, I don't have a big problem with people riding bike but is it really necessary to take a bike through that certain area? What's wrong with the rest of the trails and roads?
There are as many miles of sidewalks and paths and shopping malls you could ever ask for outside of the wilderness area why can't people just be content and walk there instead of wanting to go through the areas there not supposed to, I don't have a big problem with people walking or hiking but is it really necessary to walk through that certain area? What's wrong with the rest of the malls and trails and sidewalks?

I'm not trying to ride in areas that are designated a certain way. I'm hoping to walk through, just like thousands of others. The difference is that I will have some luggage with me called a bicycle.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:17 AM   #18
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Mr bmike-vt,
I too have a need to suffer...
Do you care to share one of your prospective routes? I'm intrigued with the idea of linking areas via a bike ride/carry.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:35 PM   #19
paddles
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... pushing a disabled bike is no different than canoe cart in terms of trail impact - which is completely legal in Wilderness areas.
This is true in Adirondack wilderness areas, but canoe carts and other wheeled vehicles are forbidden in federally-designated wilderness areas. (Wheelchairs are ok)
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:15 PM   #20
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Mr bmike-vt,
I too have a need to suffer...
Do you care to share one of your prospective routes? I'm intrigued with the idea of linking areas via a bike ride/carry.
I agree, a more specific route might help with responses about local ethics of a given area, regardless of the government's regulations. Whatever the NYSDEC says, doesn't always necessarily make it so. I think that it is clear that some folks may not take kindly to your bicycle in a wilderness area, and that you should be prepared for some criticism if you happen to come across other hikers along a "wilderness" trail.
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