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Old 07-30-2019, 08:56 AM   #1
Rich Lockwood
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are twig stoves "campfires"?

Hi, I'm going to the Essex chain and I see campfires are forbidden. I always use a little twig stove everyplace else. Would that be OK?
Thanks, Turtle
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Old 07-30-2019, 11:22 AM   #2
Terasec
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Originally Posted by Rich Lockwood View Post
Hi, I'm going to the Essex chain and I see campfires are forbidden. I always use a little twig stove everyplace else. Would that be OK?
Thanks, Turtle
not sure where you are seeing campfires are forbidden
if there is a ban could be temp/seasonal ban depending on wildfires conditions
generally campfires are classified as open fires and twig stoves would fall under same designation,
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:05 PM   #3
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https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/91888.html

Under camping: "Campfires are prohibited at the 11 shoreline tent sites"
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:50 PM   #4
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https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/91888.html

Under camping: "Campfires are prohibited at the 11 shoreline tent sites"

thank you
those sites probably follow the 150' rule for campfires
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:37 PM   #5
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https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/91888.html

Under camping: "Campfires are prohibited at the 11 shoreline tent sites"
That's kind of a bummer. So is the intent there to prevent lazy people from stripping trees close to the shore for firewood?
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:25 PM   #6
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I kind of wondered the same, I'd be interested to learn from someone who knows.

I'd guessed at it before, best I came up with was proximity of the space to actively forested easements, like around O'neil Flowage, but again that was at best a guess.

I'd like to spend some time in that area, maybe we will at some point, but other hand the kids for now are pretty enthralled with having even a brief fire by a campsite, so I'd have to work in the idea of a different experience.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:32 PM   #7
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I'm not sure about the legality of twig stoves at these lakeside sites - you may not want that in writing. These sites get limited overnight use from what I've seen - partly due to the ban on open fires. I assume the ban is primarily motivated by aesthetics vs fire hazard. Not an unreasonable way to open the area as it had a projected influx.

I'd bet that if even 50% of the lakeside campers there used twig stoves, it would be hard to notice. Open fires would surely be noticed, obviously including a fire ring.

Not to inflame a touchy subject (on another thread), but I think the fire ban doesn't apply to the float plane campsites sites on First Lake. They are located on land owned by NY State for years and were not part of the Essex Chain purchase. I also believe they are classified as Wild forest, not Primitive (and are in Hamilton vs Essex county not that it matters to DEC).

Bikes now allowed there after initial prohibition, someday perhaps fires too at the lakeside sites. The biking is great BTW including access to the Cedar river. Creative beaver dam construction in June around Deer Pond.
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:37 PM   #8
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That's kind of a bummer. So is the intent there to prevent lazy people from stripping trees close to the shore for firewood?
Those guys will still do that
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:58 PM   #9
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Well I'd say seen as how the reg is there to prevent stripping of the sites, I'd say it would probably be illegal, technically. Would anyone say anything? I highly doubt it.

I know we want to promote doing the right thing on the internet, and checking the rules is definitely the right thing, but realistically think of the impact of your twig stove vs someone cooking with a fire or just keeping one going all day.

I love to cook with a fire, so I would probably camp elsewhere... but depending on where I am going, I might even carry wood to cook. A few pieces of good kiln-dried hardwood can cook better than most of the stuff I find dead and down.
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:01 PM   #10
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As we all know, campfires are banned in the EHP and so are twig stoves as they are considered a "campfire". I would assume if campfires are banned at the shoreline sites at Essex, so would twig stoves.
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Old 07-30-2019, 11:16 PM   #11
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There are other campsites in the Chain Lakes that are not subject to the campfire ban.
PM me if you want some info about "other" sites not listed publicly.

BTW, if you're going there, you're just about obligated to paddle down the Chain Drain.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:10 AM   #12
Rich Lockwood
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Thanks

I'll just take my Jetboil gas stove and not feel guilty. I don't like the noise and extra weight which is why I use a twig stove. I just boil water anyway and rarely have a campfire.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:00 AM   #13
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I'll just take my Jetboil gas stove and not feel guilty. I don't like the noise and extra weight which is why I use a twig stove. I just boil water anyway and rarely have a campfire.
which twig stove do you have?
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:46 AM   #14
Jack
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Where allowed I have used a ESBIT stove. I get around using the chemical tablets by just using small twigs and it works great. You can boil water, I always carry a metal cup, and heat up a can of beans. I have modified mine by fabricating a top and back shield, I have drilled holes in both for ventilation. You can feed your twigs from the front. The stove itself is made of titanium and I package it with a P38 and my 2 modifications. It’s very light and has never failed me.
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Old 07-31-2019, 01:31 PM   #15
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Yes, twig stoves do count as campfires under the regulations. The DEC has generally been pretty strict about this in areas where fires are prohibited. And as others have stated, the Essex Chain fire ban also exists due to concerns about resource impacts. On-going issues with illegal tree cutting in both High Peaks and Pharaoh Lake Wilderness Areas were both cited as examples in justifying the fire ban.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:15 PM   #16
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Yes, twig stoves do count as campfires under the regulations. The DEC has generally been pretty strict about this in areas where fires are prohibited. And as others have stated, the Essex Chain fire ban also exists due to concerns about resource impacts. On-going issues with illegal tree cutting in both High Peaks and Pharaoh Lake Wilderness Areas were both cited as examples in justifying the fire ban.
Idiots will idiot. I see "bushcraft" shelters and backwoods "furniture" made out of fresh cut saplings all the time...It gets depressing, really.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:06 PM   #17
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Please weigh in on weather a small folding Titanium wood stove using charcoal briquettes would be allowable in a no campfire zone.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:09 PM   #18
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Please weigh in on weather a small folding Titanium wood stove using charcoal briquettes would be allowable in a no campfire zone.
Probably no different than esbit?
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:27 PM   #19
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When I camped on 6th lake I used briquettes on a metal container to cook my steak. Enjoyed it with a clear conscience. The site was new and not tent friendly ( yet?).
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:20 PM   #20
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hmmmm...probably a dumb question but would my white box stove be legal?
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