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Old 08-20-2019, 10:19 AM   #21
Lucky13
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As an aside and by no means attempting to hijack a thread, what is the legality of a private company or helicopter operator using their aircraft in a classified Wilderness area? Maybe Nepal has no objections to a rescue company landing on Everest, but the float plane operators take quite a lambasting here when they fly across the lines the birds can't see. Has Global Rescue obtained some kind of dispensation, or are they just another layer of administration in a NYS rescue?
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:45 AM   #22
DSettahr
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I can't speak definitively for the DEC or Global Rescue on the subject of what relationship (if any) exists between the two, but again generally speaking: I'm not aware of Global Rescue ever having been involved in a rescue in the Adirondacks. If it ever has happened, any such involvement would very much have been the exception to the rule and not the norm.

Since the DEC does have the resources to perform a helicopter extraction if and when rangers feel one is necessary- I would imagine that they'd view dubiously view any attempt by an outside company to perform an extraction in violation of regulations when they've already made the determination to proceed along a different (and lower-risk) avenue of getting an injured party out of the woods.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:54 AM   #23
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On the subject of some sort of mandatory training program for hikers on backcountry safety, akin to what is necessary for a hunting license: I don't think that you'd ever realistically be able to implement such a program for the hiking public in general. The resources necessary combined with the inevitable push back from members of the community just don't make it feasible.

Something similar that I think would be successful in the long run, however, would be to make "outdoor skills" a mandatory component of gym class in K-12 education. Subjects like the 10 essentials, basic LNT, basic map reading skills, etc. could definitely be covered in High School gym class with minimal added effort/expense/burden on the educational system (activities like bowling, archery, and golf were subjects of my high school gym class, so I certainly think there's room for even just 1-2 weeks of outdoor skills). And you've got the advantage of having a captive audience with no option to avoid education on the subject.

And any student that does eventually transition to hiking regularly wouldn't necessarily need to remember much to be better prepared than many hikers that are showing up at our trailheads- even just the knowledge of the importance of carrying a map, carrying a light source, and getting off trail and burying your poop alone would make a substantial difference.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:24 AM   #24
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Agreed Totally. I’m not sure on how things are done in schools these days. However, way back in my day the Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts were a big deal. Most if not all these organizations were hosted by schools and churches. We were encouraged to join up, not only by our parents but also by the school and church officials. I worked my way up to a assistant scoutmaster and loved every minute of it, the camping and teaching most of all. Sadly, I believe most of that training & learning mentality is gone. Especially after seeing 2 of the great Boy Scout camps closed and sold. I believe that is part of the problem these days, not only in our North Country but in the whole country. If we still had this youth training overall maybe we would see less SAR’s.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:46 AM   #25
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My experience in interacting with scout troops is that it depends on the extent to which the leadership (the scoutmaster and other involved adults) takes advantage of the resources that the BSA provides to aid in skills instruction (not just the traditional skills associated with backpacking, but also things like Leave No Trace, risk management, etc.). Some scout troops are really well organized with leadership that is heavily involved in making sure that troop members are gaining skill in these aspects of outdoor crafts. Others have leadership that could not seem to care less about things like LNT, compliance with regulations, etc.

It's unfortunate because the BSA can provide anything you might need to facilitate gaining skill in topics that go above and beyond mere tent pitching and fire starting. I'm especially a fan of the Voyageur program that exists in the Adirondacks- it's essentially experienced guides that any troop can employ to facilitate backcountry trips. I believe (not 100% sure on this) that Voyageurs are available even for other youth groups and not just the BSA.

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Old 08-20-2019, 02:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSettahr View Post
On the subject of some sort of mandatory training program for hikers on backcountry safety, akin to what is necessary for a hunting license: I don't think that you'd ever realistically be able to implement such a program for the hiking public in general. The resources necessary combined with the inevitable push back from members of the community just don't make it feasible.

Something similar that I think would be successful in the long run, however, would be to make "outdoor skills" a mandatory component of gym class in K-12 education. Subjects like the 10 essentials, basic LNT, basic map reading skills, etc. could definitely be covered in High School gym class with minimal added effort/expense/burden on the educational system (activities like bowling, archery, and golf were subjects of my high school gym class, so I certainly think there's room for even just 1-2 weeks of outdoor skills). And you've got the advantage of having a captive audience with no option to avoid education on the subject.

And any student that does eventually transition to hiking regularly wouldn't necessarily need to remember much to be better prepared than many hikers that are showing up at our trailheads- even just the knowledge of the importance of carrying a map, carrying a light source, and getting off trail and burying your poop alone would make a substantial difference.
The legislature just passed, and the Governor signed, new requirements that, by 2025, everyone has to take and pass a safety course to operate a powerboat. Anything can be done with a stroke of the pen, if only half the people comply, there is still more safety being taught than under the status quo.

But I like the idea of incorporating this into the High School curriculum. You just have to get all the other states and Canada into the program.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:15 AM   #27
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I believe (not 100% sure on this) that Voyageurs are available even for other youth groups and not just the BSA.
yes, the training is open and available to anyone involved leading BSA or any other youth groups. I can provide detailed information on the program if requested. Many of our students can easily pass the NYS licensed guide's exam after going through the 8 day program. They will also be LNT trainers.
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:52 PM   #28
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A really good idea would be to e-mail your insurance company and ask them how much they would cover if you were injured somewhere like the high peaks and needed to be airlifted out.

Getting it in writing is imperative.

It could cost between 50 and 100 grand out of pocket for something like this, and that doesn't even include the medical care you'd receive once you do get to the hospital.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-air-ambulance
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:48 AM   #29
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Almost got answers to all these questions last week. My wife and I spent 12 hours on Madison and Adam's in the Whites under ideal conditions. The next morning I took a little road walk to view the sunrise over the whole Presidential Range and when I got back to the lodge got a little "cramp." Within an hour I couldn't stand and we were looking up the nearest hospital which she drove me to. Within four hours, after my first CT scan and three shots of Fentanyl, I passed a kidney stone and walked out smiling. The next day climbed another 4000'.
A friend who is part of a rescue team in the Whites said he's never had a kidney stone rescue, but I assure you, if I could have somehow tried to walk out I would have fallen on my face at some point.
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