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Old 11-02-2019, 08:17 PM   #21
DSettahr
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I read the article about this in the Sun Community News today.

DEC maintains that there were "NO FISH" in Lake Colden in 2004. Well how do they know? Did they pump the lake dry, and filter all the water through a screen? Of course not.

Now, according to the article, they are struggling to explain how the fish have mysteriously reappeared. Occam's razor says the simplest explanation is the they have been there all along, just not detected. But that doesn't fit the heroic political narrative that Seggos is trying to spray.

Not a fisherman; just annoyed by the narrative spray that seems to be DEC's strongest product these days...
Electrofishing is a fairly common survey technique used by fisheries managers for evaluating fish populations, particularly in larger bodies of water. On a lake the size of Lake Colden, it would not be particularly difficult to determine, within a reasonable level of accuracy, that there's "NO FISH" in the lake using electrofishing.

Seine netting is another survey method that can easily be used over larger areas to evaluate local fish populations. Again, on a lake the size of Lake Colden, it would not be overly difficult to determine through seine netting that there's very likely "NO FISH" in the lake.
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:53 AM   #22
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Interesting stuff. Thanks. Was not aware of Electrofishing. (I considered seine netting, but with all the irregular rocks and logs on the bottom of an Adirondack pond, I would consider netting an unreliable assessment tool.)

Yes, I'm aware off the lime efforts, and the good restoration of various water bodies. And of course I'm aware of acid rain, and the improvements in recent decades. And maybe the tributary theory is reasonable.

I remain annoyed by the trend that every event needs to be politicized, and used for chest-beating and self-aggrandizement.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:24 PM   #23
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I read an article (can't remember exactly, but may have been a DEC written history) about Avalanche Lake and Lake Colden. The article said that they were probably fishless. the rookies they now finding may be descendants of fish stocked by the Tahwaus Club who owned the property up to the 1920's.
From the UMP:Avalanche Lake (UH-P 707)
Avalanche Lake is a scenic, yet acidified 10.4-acre pond which is currently devoid of fish life. It lies at the base of Avalanche Mountain and Mount Colden. Access is via a marked trail from the Adirondack Loj. Avalanche Lake was barren of fish until stocked with brook trout in 1921. For the next 30 years, Avalanche Lake was a renowned trout fishery and apparently remained a brook trout monoculture until it acidified in the mid-1950's. A chemical survey done in 1958 recorded a pH value of 5.4. A 1965 biological survey captured no fish and the pH had dropped to 4.9. Avalanche Lake was limed in 1979, but subsequently reacidified within three years and the liming program was terminated. A 1987 ALSC survey determined that pH was 4.99, mean depth was 10.8 feet, maximum depth was 23 feet, and the flushing rate was 5 times/year.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:46 AM   #24
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Electrofishing is a fairly common survey technique used by fisheries managers for evaluating fish populations, particularly in larger bodies of water. On a lake the size of Lake Colden, it would not be particularly difficult to determine, within a reasonable level of accuracy, that there's "NO FISH" in the lake using electrofishing.

Seine netting is another survey method that can easily be used over larger areas to evaluate local fish populations. Again, on a lake the size of Lake Colden, it would not be overly difficult to determine through seine netting that there's very likely "NO FISH" in the lake.
It is a lot less work to carry a portable pH meter. If values sampled at multiple locations are below a cutoff value (often 5, 100 x's more acidic than " neutral pH" water), it is safe bet that there are no trout, and brook trout are more acid tolerant than most other species, so unlikely there are any fish.

There is also a principal in science that the measurement system should not be so intrusive as to possibly destroy or negatively impact the subject of measurement. So while netting and electrofishing are both valid sampling techniques, they could both be potentially harmful to a newly recovering population, at least if they did more than a small effort.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:01 PM   #25
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TCD, this isn't the first lake to spontaneously regenerate. Honnedaga is the classic example. The prevailing hypothesis is that brookies persisted in small numbers in tributary streams. They then colonized the lakes when conditions improved to the point they could reliably live there. Proof positive? No, but a reasonable scenario backed up by ALSC netting and survey data.

I'm not a big fan of their narrative but before you totally trash the DEC please be aware of the following:
  • The DEC successfully reclaimed numerous water bodies for brook trout that were severely degraded by invasive species. Entire watersheds were recovered in some cases.
The DEC identified, saved and re-stocked several brook trout strains that are unique to the Adirondacks.[/LIST]As a result it is now possible to catch a 6 lb brookie in the Adirondacks. ask me how I know. That possibility hasn't existed in many, many decades.
I'm probably going to regret this, but how DO you know that?
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:16 AM   #26
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I'm probably going to regret this, but how DO you know that?
Because I told him!
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:44 AM   #27
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I get the DEC did the survey. That being said, both methods of surveying are only as good as the people doing them. There are several factors that can effect the outcome of any survey, just take a look at numerous surveys of lakes they do every year then, compare them to previous years. There is a lot of variability. Most likely there weren't any (or very few) fish in the lake at the time of the testing. For what ever reason they were up the small tribs. I know a lake in the ADKs this very thing happens in the summer. Its a 300 acre oligotrophic lake that is "doesn't" have any salmonoids. The brookies move about 100 yrs from the lake into a culvert. By early to mid Nov they are gone. The only place they can go in back to the lake. The creek is nearly impassable 75 to 100 yds. up steam. You could easily jump over it and may have 12" water at the culvert pool. It's great the fish are still there, but don't think its near the "mystery" the DEC makes it sound like.
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:28 PM   #28
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I get the DEC did the survey. That being said, both methods of surveying are only as good as the people doing them. There are several factors that can effect the outcome of any survey, just take a look at numerous surveys of lakes they do every year then, compare them to previous years. There is a lot of variability. Most likely there weren't any (or very few) fish in the lake at the time of the testing. For what ever reason they were up the small tribs. I know a lake in the ADKs this very thing happens in the summer. Its a 300 acre oligotrophic lake that is "doesn't" have any salmonoids. The brookies move about 100 yrs from the lake into a culvert. By early to mid Nov they are gone. The only place they can go in back to the lake. The creek is nearly impassable 75 to 100 yds. up steam. You could easily jump over it and may have 12" water at the culvert pool. It's great the fish are still there, but don't think its near the "mystery" the DEC makes it sound like.
I appreciate your opinion, but I can assure you that it was not the personell, and the chemistry of lake Colden and most of it's tribs would not have supported a year round population of trout until recently.
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:11 PM   #29
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I'm probably going to regret this, but how DO you know that?
Aft,

You clearly need a mid-winter pick-me-up. None of the enclosed are 6 but might be close. I've seen others catch bigger. Not Glen, though.

You might want to ask ADKbrooktrout (Preston) what the biggest Adirondack brookie he's done a carving of.
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File Type: jpg BB.jpg (136.0 KB, 107 views)
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:46 PM   #30
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What gorgeous fish
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:42 PM   #31
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Beast!
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:22 PM   #32
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Beast!
Two different beasts, Pauly. My favorite is the one my son Ross caught at age 13. That's the one Preston did a carving of. It was Ross' high school graduation present. It hangs on our wall until he graduates from college and has a stable place of his own. By which time I'll have to catch a fish as pretty and have Preston do another carving.

The other is the female that I caught 2 years ago and measured 25 1/2 inches.

My son Thomas still has the family record for a brookie at 26+ inches but that was in northern Quebec.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:25 PM   #33
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Aft,

You clearly need a mid-winter pick-me-up. None of the enclosed are 6 but might be close. I've seen others catch bigger. Not Glen, though.

You might want to ask ADKbrooktrout (Preston) what the biggest Adirondack brookie he's done a carving of.
Awesome
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