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Old 03-25-2007, 11:11 AM   #1
swavy
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Mountain Lion Sighting in Wells

My friends driving north on Rte. 30 just before dusk on Wednesday night swore they spotted a "cougar" on the side of the road. I later showed pictures of big cats on the internet, thinking that they saw a bobcat, but they SWORE that it was a mountain lion and they all (including the kids) pointed to its picture. I still wasn't sure, but the fellow driving said he slowed down and stared directly at it, and he was sure it was a big cat.

As a side note, I had driven through just about 1/2 hour before and noticed unusually more deer than normal, usually you'll see a couple but that evening I saw them all over the side of the road, on the road, on Lake Algonquin, everywhere, scores of them.

I'm not sure, but I was wondering if maybe a mountain lion, or something, had been causing the deer to bug out of the woods so that they were all over th place.
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:24 AM   #2
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I sighted a Cougar in Wells a couple of years ago. So there's one around.
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:56 PM   #3
Connie Bear Orion
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I find it hard to beleive there are cougars in this state.
No trappers have caught any yet.
That would be the first place you would see them.

I am sure trapping a cougar would be alot like trapping a bobcat or a fisher.
Some good and stinky bait and good trap placement should be enough.

No scats, no proven tracks and none in traps makes me think someone saw a fisher if they thought it was a black one, or a bobcat otherwise, or maybe even a house cat. Sight and depth perception in the woods plays tricks on you.
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Old 03-25-2007, 03:56 PM   #4
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Makes sense to me that no trappers have caught a mountain lion. It would take a much bigger and stronger trap (than what is legal to set on land in NYS) to catch a mountain lion.

As far as identifying one...BIG brown cat with a long tail - How could you mistake it, at least one that is next to you on the edge of the road? I can understand why they aren't observed more often - literally thousands of acres of thick woods in the ADK - A tank could be parked 20 feet away and you'd never see it.

I think people like Swavy's friends and redhawk are very fortunate to witness something that most people will never see.
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:47 PM   #5
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I tend to believe it. I saw one in NW PA around 1970 or so. If you look up "Hermit Spring, PA" at mapquest.com, you'll see the exact area. It was about 20' over me on a bluff looking down. You can't mistake that cat for anything else. VERY big cat with an extremely long tail and eyes that just pierce your sole to the core.

Of the many thousands of hours/days that I've spent in the woods in my 53 years it's the only time I ever saw one.

They are in the NE. Rare? You betcha, but they are here. The state agencies can say whatever they want. I know what I saw.

If you have an "up close and personal" with a mountain lion, there ain't no mistaking it for a bobcat, lynx or whatever.

As for them being trapped, I agree with St. Regis: It's going to require an awfully BIG trap. A bobcat or lynx trap ain't gonna come close to handling it.

p.s. this was one of the times I thought I may have needed to use my 12ga as posted in the "Bear Attacks" thread. Cooler heads on both sides prevailed thank heaven and it just watched and growled as I backed off.
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Old 03-25-2007, 09:48 PM   #6
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http://www.fws.gov/news/NewsReleases...E51EC6CB8FFC73
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:10 PM   #7
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Link doesn't work.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:48 PM   #8
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It appears the the whole FWS site is down at this time...
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:48 PM   #9
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It says, "Service Unavailable"

A bona fide government agency..........
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:01 AM   #10
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...lol...


....And you guys always poke fun at me for not wanting the feds in control of plopping Wolves here in the dak's...
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:03 AM   #11
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...lol...


....And you guys always poke fun at me for not wanting the feds in control of plopping Wolves here in the dak's...
O the other hand, maybe it's down because their all out making sure no one is poaching.....
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:10 AM   #12
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Or...they are out shooting all the wolves getting into the livestock...that's kinda like job security...get paid to put them there...then shoot'em up....I think they have shot almost a 1/3 in Id...


but anyways...I digress...
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:15 AM   #13
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Cougar caught in bobcat snare

thebismarcktribune.com
Mountain lion may have been N.D.'s 'Eve'
Associated Press

A female mountain lion that was caught in a bobcat snare in northwestern North Dakota might have played a big role in the increase in cougars in North Dakota over the past few years, a wildlife official says.

The state Game and Fish Department determined the lion to be at least 10 years old. Wildlife chief Randy Kreil said it might have been one of North Dakota's first resident females, and possibly responsible for several offspring
This could be 'Eve,'" Kreil said.

Kreil said the cougar likely was in the area for at least seven years. "Breeding females establish a territory and generally don't wander anymore," he said.

Wildlife officials tried to save the lion - even bringing it to Bismarck's Dakota Zoo - but the animal's injuries were too extensive, so it was euthanized.

Dorothy Fecske, furbearer biologist with Game and Fish, was examining the animal to determine its reproductive history


BismarckTribune.com
02-22-2007: news-state

Trapped mountain lion killed after unique effort to save it
By BLAKE NICHOLSON
Associated Press Writer
A mountain lion caught in a bobcat trap in western North Dakota was killed after a unique attempt to save it.

The effort was the first time the North Dakota Game and Fish Department had brought a live cougar in from the wild, and the first time Bismarck's Dakota Zoo had taken in an animal straight from the wild.

"It's a very significant departure on how we handle wild animals," said Randy Kreil, wildlife chief for the Game and Fish Department. "We manage for populations, not individuals. Typically, the welfare of one animal is not going to have a big impact on the population of the animal you're managing."
Kreil said the special effort was made this week because of the opportunity to put a tracking radio collar on the adult female, which furbearer biologist Dorothy Fecske estimated to be at least 10 years old. The department has a collar on only one other mountain lion - a 2-year-old male that was caught in a bobcat trap last November.

"Having an adult female with a collar on it would have been very, very valuable in terms of learning about seasonal and daily movements of animals," Kreil said.

The lion was actually caught twice. The animal, which was trapped in a bobcat snare northwest of Grassy Butte, had the remnants of another trap around one front paw, Kreil said.

Officials with Game and Fish, Dakota Zoo and Theodore Roosevelt National Park on Sunday went to the site, tranquilized the cougar and brought it to Bismarck. Fecske said the animal's condition was stable Monday night, but the next day officials concluded the lion was not likely to survive because of its injuries. It was euthanized Tuesday afternoon.

"The snare was very tight and cut off circulation to (one) paw," zoo director Terry Lincoln said. "When the vet looked at it, it was determined that the paw would not come back around as far as (the cougar) being able to walk on it."

Lincoln said the mountain lion was housed in a quarantine area to guard against disease, and that zoo staff took a "very hands-off approach" with the animal.

"It was pretty calm, pretty quiet. It wasn't unduly stressed," Lincoln said.

It was the third documented mountain lion death this year linked to a bobcat snare.

In January, two young male mountain lions were found in bobcat traps in North Dakota's badlands, also in the Grassy Butte area. The first had to be killed because of its condition. The second was dead when it was found.

"We're going to be visiting with the two trapping associations in the state to discuss ... ways to potentially reduce incidental catches of lions," Kreil said.
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Connie Bear Orion View Post
I find it hard to beleive there are cougars in this state.
No trappers have caught any yet.
That would be the first place you would see them.

I am sure trapping a cougar would be alot like trapping a bobcat or a fisher.
Some good and stinky bait and good trap placement should be enough.

No scats, no proven tracks and none in traps makes me think someone saw a fisher if they thought it was a black one, or a bobcat otherwise, or maybe even a house cat. Sight and depth perception in the woods plays tricks on you.
Tell A DEC Ranger that you saw a fisher and he'll jump up and down for joy and say "finally, some one actually knows what they saw", not a panther or mountain lion.
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:52 AM   #15
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I can tell from personal experience that the DEC is in no rush to confirm cougar sighting.

I saw one in Wells, right near my house. It left a track. The DEC never got back to me. The photo of the track has been pretty much accepted as a cougar track from some people who should know. Plus the fact that I have seen Puma before, in the west where they are not uncommon, so I know what they look like.

Because a species isn't "spotted" doesn't mean they don't exist. I have leved in Wells for eight years and I have seen multiple moose in the area, from Lewey Lake, to the Silver Lake Wilderness off route 10, Pumpkin Hollow and even a calf at the base of my driveway in the high water last year.
Yet there are permanent residents in their 80's who were born and raised here who have never seen a moose.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:54 PM   #16
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I can tell from personal experience that the DEC is in no rush to confirm cougar sighting.

I saw one in Wells, right near my house. It left a track.
Can you post a picture of the track?

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Because a species isn't "spotted" doesn't mean they don't exist.
This I agree with 100%. When bobcat first started traveling through my back woods officials said there's none in the area. Now they've changed their tune!
Same was true with black bear until a picture was taken of one in a persons yard.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:21 PM   #17
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Can you post a picture of the track?
I'll have to look for it again. I emailed a copy to EasternPuma and have cleaned up my computer since. When i get a chance, I'll look through my dvd archives.

They (Eastern Puma) were pretty sure that it was a cougar track.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:01 PM   #18
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Makes sense to me that no trappers have caught a mountain lion. It would take a much bigger and stronger trap (than what is legal to set on land in NYS) to catch a mountain lion.

Do you trap? I am thinking not.

Its funny how little you need to catch an animal by. A perfect catch on an animal in a trap is right between the pads of the feet. I don't know what the size of a eastern mountain lion is, but I am thinking a 100lb cat would be a big one.

A buddy of mine caught a black bear in a coyote trap. Thats what the tracks around the set was. Pulled the stakes that held the trap right out of the ground. Found the trap about 20 feet away. If you can get a bear in a trap and have it caught enough for it to pull the stakes out of the ground, I am sure a 100 lb Cat can be held on a legal trap. My buddy carries 2 crow bars with him to pull the stakes when he pulls his traps, and he still has trouble.


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Tell A DEC Ranger that you saw a fisher and he'll jump up and down for joy and say "finally, some one actually knows what they saw", not a panther or mountain lion.
Thats because to many people think they saw a dark cat with a long tail, and they assume the gov't lies to them and tells them there are no Mountain lions in the state. Fishers move like a cat, and if you think its 50 feet away and its only really 10 feet, you might think its alot larger then it is.

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Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
I can tell from personal experience that the DEC is in no rush to confirm cougar sighting.

I saw one in Wells, right near my house. It left a track. The DEC never got back to me. The photo of the track has been pretty much accepted as a cougar track from some people who should know. Plus the fact that I have seen Puma before, in the west where they are not uncommon, so I know what they look like.

Because a species isn't "spotted" doesn't mean they don't exist. I have leved in Wells for eight years and I have seen multiple moose in the area, from Lewey Lake, to the Silver Lake Wilderness off route 10, Pumpkin Hollow and even a calf at the base of my driveway in the high water last year.
Yet there are permanent residents in their 80's who were born and raised here who have never seen a moose.
As for the gov't's lies, well yes i believe they do, but only when it is in their own interest. As for denying the fact that there are wolves and mountain lions in the state, no they are being honest. Its in their interest confirm the fact and to admit it. So people do not kill them mistakenly. If they admit they are there, and you kill one now you have legal issues.

I am jealous I would love to see a moose in the wild.
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:13 PM   #19
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As for denying the fact that there are wolves and mountain lions in the state, no they are being honest. Its in their interest confirm the fact and to admit it. So people do not kill them mistakenly. If they admit they are there, and you kill one now you have legal issues.
Actually I believe the opposite to be true. if wolves or cats are conformed, then they have to do something about it, including allocation of funds for programs.

So it's really in theri best interests to not have them.

I am quite familiar with mountain lion, cougar, puma, whatever you prefer to call them. I have seen quite a few, out west, Montana, SD, Idaho and Wyoming, so I have some credibility on the subject. I certainly would not mistake a fisher or even a bobcat for one.

So, take it from me, they do exist in the Dacks, or at least one does. I believe that eastern Puma had a few experts look at the photo of the track I had and they were pretty sure it was from a cougar.
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:15 PM   #20
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What would make deer run like wild straight at you? This happened to us last year as we were going into an area we call the sandpit to do some riding.
My dog took off after 2 of the deer while one was coming straight at us. It saw us and ran to it's right. As we looked down the trail to the clearing we saw a couple more deer running like crazy and something that my son says looked like a very large cat chasing them. I didn't get a good look at it, but both my son and husband said it had a cat head. The only thing I saw was something large kinda light brown/beige color. Again I didn't see it all that well. But I never saw deer run like that. Everything was over in seconds. This all took place in Paradox.

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