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  • Originally posted by randomscooter View Post
    A letter from "a reader", anonymous as best I can tell. We are encouraged to "enjoy" it. Clearly it was intended as humor.

    Yes, it was funny. But I surely hope nobody thinks it serious. If so, then it would confirm the very pseudo-skepticism that was mentioned in an earlier post:


    Yes, it was funny. And I believe that, so long as it is seen for what it is, it will do no harm.

    Seriously, you thought it was meant as humor?

    Then you will think this article from Forbes is just hilarious.

    It is way past time to realize that none of this is really about protecting the planet from man-made climate change. It never was.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cityboy View Post
      Seriously, you thought it was meant as humor?
      I choose to see it only for it's value as humor. But of course I understand that some people become intoxicated and emboldened by such invective. And that should concern us all, regardless from which perspective the rhetoric originates.

      Then you will think this article from Forbes is just hilarious.
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...their-science/
      Actually I thought it was pathetic. As I said above, some of the rhetoric from both sides is less than useful. And some of that doesn't even have any redeeming value as humor.
      Scooting here and there
      Through the woods and up the peaks
      Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


      "Pushing the limits of easy."™

      Comment


      • Scoot-

        You're banging your head against a brick wall. He's just going to keep posting links thinking he's changing opinions.
        “Once there were brook trout in the streams in the mountains. They smelled of moss in your hand. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.”
        ― Cormac McCarthy

        Comment


        • A war of links.

          Originally posted by Glen View Post
          He's just going to keep posting links thinking he's changing opinions.
          At this time of the Masters golf tournament I suppose a links war is somewhat apropos.
          The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Glen View Post
            Scoot-

            You're banging your head against a brick wall. He's just going to keep posting links thinking he's changing opinions.
            Perhaps he is changing opinions. That's okay. Besides, my head has been battered by much worse than brick walls, with no <apparent> damage.

            I'm not particularly focusing on the issue itself, but rather on the demeanor of those discussing the issue. I certainly have my position, but I doubt anyone here really knows exactly where I even stand on the issue. I hold that close because it's my business, and I'm not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking. My biggest concern for a long while has been, as I said, the manner in which we all comport ourselves. I find it very disappointing at times. On both sides.

            Sometimes little things surface during these discussions. Things like snake oil salesman analogies. They get me thinking. They offer a window into the mindset of others. Sometimes that can be revealing. On occasion these little things actually cause a course correction in my own way of thinking.

            So I say let the links wars continue.
            Scooting here and there
            Through the woods and up the peaks
            Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


            "Pushing the limits of easy."™

            Comment


            • Truth and/or Consequences

              Hate mail and threats await climate scientists who argue for climate-change openness and accountability, but that should only steer victims to fight back against the vitriol, says Seth Shulman in this month's installation of "Got Science?".


              "Torcello's case is particularly interesting, though, because he appears to have fallen victim to precisely the type of disinformation campaign he decried. He has seen his argument distorted beyond recognition by media outlets that thrive on half truths and politically charged controversy, whipping up the ire of an ugly and angry fringe in the process."

              (please see article)
              Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

              Comment


              • "it is a well-known fact that fossil-fuel interests have long been underwriting a disinformation campaign specifically designed to block climate action and confuse the public about the issue."

                "Meanwhile, recently published research shows that nearly two-thirds of the industrial carbon pollution released into the atmosphere since 1854 can be directly traced to the carbon extracted from the Earth by just 90 entities — 83 producers of coal, oil and natural gas, and seven cement manufacturers."

                "Society has known for years, and even decades, that the overwhelming scientific consensus is that human activity is leading the planet to dangerous and potentially catastrophic climate change. The latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change issues the most sober warnings yet about the imminent threat we face."
                "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                Comment


                • Wow. Lot's of information! One link leads to another. In my ongoing quest for the truth here's another. http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming...rming-faq.html


                  And another http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2...ned-in-the-us/
                  Last edited by Schultzz; 04-10-2014, 07:26 AM.
                  Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by cityboy View Post
                    A very timely essay about what bothers skeptics and how to convert them in 14 steps.

                    Step 1 – Stop making predictions that don’t come true.
                    Step 2 – When you make a prediction, don’t just say something “might” happen.
                    Step 3 – Don’t live your life like you don’t believe a word you’re saying.
                    Step 4 – Stop the hate.
                    Step 5 – Stop avoiding debate.
                    Step 6 – Answer questions.
                    Step 7 -*Stop enjoying catastrophes.
                    Step 8 – Don’t use invalid arguments.
                    Step 9 – When you are wrong, admit it and apologise.
                    Step 10 – Stop claiming that 97% of scientists agree that humans are warming the globe significantly.
                    Step 11 – Stop lying.* If you think it is okay to lie if it’s for a good cause, you are wrong.
                    Step 12 – Rebuke your fellow Warmists if they act in an unscientific way.
                    Step 13 – Stop blaming everything on Global Warming.
                    Step 14 – Why are the only solutions always big-government “progressive” policies?

                    Here is the whole essay: He expands upon his views.

                    http://joannenova.com.au/2014/04/how...ps/#more-34624
                    Very timely indeed. See below.

                    Originally posted by Schultzz View Post
                    Truth and/or Consequences

                    Hate mail and threats await climate scientists who argue for climate-change openness and accountability, but that should only steer victims to fight back against the vitriol, says Seth Shulman in this month's installation of "Got Science?".


                    "Torcello's case is particularly interesting, though, because he appears to have fallen victim to precisely the type of disinformation campaign he decried. He has seen his argument distorted beyond recognition by media outlets that thrive on half truths and politically charged controversy, whipping up the ire of an ugly and angry fringe in the process."

                    (please see article)
                    It would appear that the climate change deniers don't hold themselves to the same standards they demand of their adversaries. For example -

                    Step 4 – Stop the hate.
                    Step 8 – Don’t use invalid arguments.
                    (with particular reference to)
                    Argumentum ad baculum – “arguing by making threats, either implicitly or explicitly”

                    Which comes back around to my earlier point that these types of statements are not helpful, and may in fact be harmful. I'm afraid I must retract my previous statement that the list had some redeeming value as humor.
                    Scooting here and there
                    Through the woods and up the peaks
                    Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


                    "Pushing the limits of easy."™

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Schultzz View Post
                      I find it enlightening that the author of the blog makes the following comment -
                      stevengoddard says:
                      December 31, 2013 at 10:43 pm

                      Another moron shows up. These are all time record highs set or tied. There is no time bias. Where do they crank you people out at?
                      To me this does not portray the kind of person whose reports should be taken too seriously. If a person wishes to be taken seriously, he should act seriously.

                      Of course he does seem to have a disclaimer just above the comments section:
                      About stevengoddard
                      Just having fun
                      So I guess he doesn't even take himself seriously. Unfortunately some people do.
                      Scooting here and there
                      Through the woods and up the peaks
                      Random Scoots awaits (D.P.)


                      "Pushing the limits of easy."™

                      Comment


                      • I would point out rule #6. I actually find it a bit of a relief to have some folks in the discussion who don't take themselves too seriously.

                        On the flip side, there's an entire political class (Colbert, Maher, Harris-Perry, etc.) who think that debate on serious topics is best conducted by making fun of (and tacitly demonizing) the folks with a different opinion, rather than discussing facts. So you can go too far in that direction as well.

                        Comment


                        • Interesting thread but.....

                          .....is the atmosphere warming up because of human-released carbon or isn't it?

                          Some of us might want to know.
                          The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                          Comment


                          • In an effort to help the undecided in forming an opinion on the Climate debate I present my sources of reliable information. I encourage Pro-Warmists to present their most reliable sources too.

                            Read them and decide for yourselves OR just wait 15 years an the answer should be obvious by then.

                            This site presents an international flavor. They're centered out of England.

                            The Global Warming Policy Foundation is a non-partisan think tank and a registered educational charity that focuses on climate and energy policy. 


                            This site is the most popular. They're American.

                            World's most viewed site on climate change, global warming, extreme weather, IPCC, NOAA, NASA, Arctic sea ice, urban heat islands, environmentalism.


                            This site is Australian. She seems to be a free thinker unlike the previous 2 sites which tend to re-post articles. Unfortunately she recently wrote an article lauding the Koch Brothers and I'm thinking of dropping her for it.



                            This site is my major source for graphs. I like to look at data rather than just listen to someone's opinion. The big picture is a must see.



                            Good luck in your search for the truth.

                            P.S The link I previously posted to the Forbes article is a valuable aid in showing that the Warmists intentions are not as pure as they portray.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Neil View Post
                              Interesting thread but.....

                              .....is the atmosphere warming up because of human-released carbon or isn't it?

                              Some of us might want to know.

                              This is along the lines of what I was thinking. There is money spent on both sides which steals credibility from each. While on one hand you have Rush Limburger stating that since this information is presented by liberals it must be fake, (real scientific approach), and on the other hand 90% of scientists share their opinion that Global Warming is caused by man, (still an opinion) then I guess we can all keep our own opinions and keep on seeking.

                              We have the serious, the ludicrous and the humorous. We have posters on this site who are serious, we have Rush who is ludicrous, and we have Goddard, Daley, and others who make a living from their attempt at being humorous. The professor from Rochester was misquoted, (he's not even a scientist), he is a philosophy professor, you have Koch and Exon donating millions to organizations who dispense more opinions which support their donors' claims. Many people in the fossil fuel industry have their livelihoods at stake, and all the GW perpetrators turn out to be 90 industrial factions out of billions of people. Everyone has a label. When you figure the "truth" out please let me know. In the meantime, I'm going fishing.
                              Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

                              Comment


                              • Rochester Professor Proposes Jail Time

                                Originally posted by Neil View Post
                                Interesting thread but.....

                                .....is the atmosphere warming up because of human-released carbon or isn't it?

                                Some of us might want to know.

                                That is the main question.

                                The global timescale is so long, it is very hard for us to comprehend. Seasons change annually and temperatures go up and down. This is normal.

                                Glacial (cooling) and interglacial (warming) periods may have lasted 10,000 to 1 million years each. This was well before man could have any impact on the environment.

                                How do we know if we are just observing the effects of a normal glacial or interglacial period? Comparing 100 years worth of temperature data is like monitoring the temperature over a few hours during the course of the day.

                                I am all for protecting the Earth as best we can, but I want our actions to be based on real facts, not emotional responses or feelings.

                                If CO2 is so bad, why don't we outlaw exhaling and carbonated drinks? Vegetation needs carbon dioxide to live, but how much is really too much?

                                Comment

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