Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Hiking in the Adirondacks
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-10-2017, 11:46 AM   #81
snapper
snapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: central NYS
Posts: 189
Not trying to be a wise guy here but check current regs on whether snowmobiles are considered "motorized vehicles" or not. Years ago I met up with some snowmobilers on a local XC ski trail and asked why, in spite of the "No Motor Vehicles" sign at the trailhead, did they continue to ride their sleds on the trail? The one person I spoke too was very polite and he said he understood my question but to the best of his knowledge, at least at that time, snowmobiles were not considered vehicles because they operated via tracks; not wheels. He suggested I call the local DEC office to get confirmation on that; which I did. Incredibly, the person I spoke with in the regional DEC office said the operator of the snowmobile was correct.

Now, I don't know if both parties were pulling my leg or the laws have been changed but it might be worth looking into. I don't drive/ride them so I really don't know much about the current rules & regs that oversee their operation. At this point I just do my best to stay away from any location where they might be operated when I'm skiing or snowshoeing.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

snapper
snapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2017, 10:38 PM   #82
electbc
Outdoorsman
 
electbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northern N.J.
Posts: 81
That would be something if snowmobiling would be exempt in a wilderness area. Drones are not exempt.
https://dronedj.com/2017/11/08/canad...ks-wilderness/
electbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2017, 11:47 PM   #83
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper View Post
Not trying to be a wise guy here but check current regs on whether snowmobiles are considered "motorized vehicles" or not. Years ago I met up with some snowmobilers on a local XC ski trail and asked why, in spite of the "No Motor Vehicles" sign at the trailhead, did they continue to ride their sleds on the trail? The one person I spoke too was very polite and he said he understood my question but to the best of his knowledge, at least at that time, snowmobiles were not considered vehicles because they operated via tracks; not wheels. He suggested I call the local DEC office to get confirmation on that; which I did. Incredibly, the person I spoke with in the regional DEC office said the operator of the snowmobile was correct.
Was this on Pharaoh Road or someplace else?
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 07:23 AM   #84
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
Regarding snowmobile use on State Land within the Forest Preserve...
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document...

And besides, I would think anything that by law needs to be registered at the Department of Motor Vehicles would indeed be considered a "motor vehicle".

Last edited by Justin; 11-13-2017 at 07:50 AM..
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 11:27 PM   #85
electbc
Outdoorsman
 
electbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northern N.J.
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Was this on Pharaoh Road or someplace else?
Probably not Pharoah, Snapper lives near Cooperstown.
electbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 11:49 PM   #86
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by electbc View Post
Probably not Pharoah, Snapper lives near Cooperstown.
Ok thanks.
Just in case there's any confusion, snowmobiles are not allowed in the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness, or any designated Wilderness Area for that matter.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 12:34 AM   #87
aft paddle
Member
 
aft paddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern Greene County
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Regarding snowmobile use on State Land within the Forest Preserve...
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document...

And besides, I would think anything that by law needs to be registered at the Department of Motor Vehicles would indeed be considered a "motor vehicle".
Nope Just re-registered my trailer.
aft paddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 07:18 AM   #88
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by aft paddle View Post
Nope Just re-registered my trailer.
Ha...so did I.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 03:51 PM   #89
snapper
snapper
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: central NYS
Posts: 189
Justin - Sorry...just getting back after being away for a bit. Yes, this happened on state forest land in Otsego County; the Milford State Forest to be exact. I've not looked deeply into the regulations and didn't think about the "wilderness" designation being different so that might be the issue at play here; state forest is not wilderness after all.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...be well.

snapper
snapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 06:22 PM   #90
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
Ok thanks Snap, that makes much more sense than a snowmobile is technically not considered a motorized vehicle.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 07:48 PM   #91
Dave Bourque
Member
 
Dave Bourque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 21
I can add a little to this discussion. I have been visiting the Pharaoh Lake since the 60's. Back then the only parking lot was at Mill Brook. It was common to see family vehicles there. No one ever parked at the new parking area, it didn't really exist. The Mill Brook area is locally known as the Culverfields (sp). I believe it was named after homesteaders who lived there long ago. I've looked but never found any foundations in this area. But if you look at the older maps you can see there are two routes to the Mill Brook parking area. There is also a long abandoned route from the west. If you look around you can still find it. Unfortunately it crosses private land before it reaches Ernest Smith Road, near Adirondack. So this is not a viable approach option. In the 60's, the bridge over Mill Brook was a double track and strong enough for jeeps to cross. A local man, Norman Mead, would bring us kids all the way in with his surplus army truck to go fishing. The second water crossing at Pharaoh Lake Brook was accomplished by fording as there was only a footbridge at this location. Once you arrived at the lake you were greeted by a ranger cabin in a open field. There was a large sloping deck down to the water where NYSDEC rented canoes for $2 a day. The ranger had a row boat with an outboard motor that he patrolled the lake with. He would visit the lean-tos and collect the garbage (I vaguely remember metal garbage cans at the lean-to's but I may be wrong), ferry the garbage to the ranger cabin, and truck it out with his jeep. Once NYSDEC decided to transition from interior control to peripheral control, the decision was to remove the interior ranger cabins (with exceptions - a few favorites remained; Marcy Dam, John's Brook, Lake Colden, I guess I can't blame them but I digress). The Pharaoh Lake ranger cabin was not the only ranger cabin removed. Duck Hole, Shattuck Clearing, the West Canada Lakes, and, I'm sure, many more were also removed. My first editorial - I, for one, have never felt that a ranger cabin detracted from my wilderness experiences. I miss them. With the removal of the ranger cabin came the removal of the jeep bridge at Mill Brook - it was replaced with a foot bridge thus ending 4 wheel drive access but not motorized access. I continue to visit the Pharaoh Lake area all seasons and have seen snowmobile tracks across the frozen lake. I've also seen quad tracks past the Mill Brook bridge as a foot bridge is still wide enough for quads. The first time I visited Pharaoh Lake on my own I rode my "stingray" bike all the way to the lake. I then hiked around the lake and up Pharaoh Mountain. I was greeted in the cab of the fire tower by a fire observer (sorry, I don't recall his name) who was spending the summer on the summit. He was living in the cabin (long since gone) with his wife and young child. He used a root cellar to keep his spoilable provisions cold and safe from bears. It was a wonderful experience meeting him. I miss being able to bike into Pharaoh, they are not allowed. You are allowed to ride a horse to the lake or haul a wheeled canoe cart to the lake but no bikes (there is a sign next to the register). As far as thefts in the area, a few years back we had the "hermit of Brant Lake". He camped on Park Mountain, not far from the new parking lot. I never did hear any reports of him bothering campers at Pharaoh Lake. He did manage to break into my camp and relieve me of some fine spirits but that's another story. And once, back in 2010, I spent a week on the north end of the lake during late October. When we returned to our truck we found the tires slashed. ALL FOUR!! It ended up being a wacko who was angry at the world but regretted his actions and turned himself in. He paid for the tires. So, overall, I consider the area safe. One last thought, which do you prefer? Pharaoh or Pharoah, I see both commonly used. The current guidebooks and maps use Pharaoh. This thread is using Pharoah.

Last edited by Dave Bourque; Yesterday at 07:40 PM.. Reason: grammer
Dave Bourque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 08:14 PM   #92
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
Dave,
Great post & thanks for sharing!
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 09:45 PM   #93
Banjoe
Member
 
Banjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Dave, Thanks, that was some nice reading for a "newbie" who first went to Pharaoh in 2000.
I use Pharaoh, that's how the Egyptians spelled it 5000 years ago and by gods, that's the way I'll keep spelling it.
I was there one winter when some snowmobilers came in for a spin around the lake, it was not the highlight of the trip.
Banjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:45 AM   #94
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,741
The sign on Beaver Pond Rd says “Pharoah Lake Road”.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.