Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Hunting and Fishing in the Adirondacks
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-20-2019, 01:58 PM   #21
Fly Rodder
Member
 
Fly Rodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
With climate change are deer exposed to new parasites and diseases for which they haven't evolved resistance?

I see a lot of deer roadside near Jay and Keene. I see so many that when it's dark I keep my speed to no more than 50 mph, make sure to have my high beams on, the radio off and I remain on high alert.
Nah, deer are highly adaptive to their environment. Colder and, more importantly, later winters can have an adverse effect (e.g., deer are more vulnerable to a diminished food supply). Moose are at the very southern boundary of their preferred habitat and they are very vulnerable. They're highly susceptible to winter ticks and brainworm disease, which is transmitted by white tailed deer who aren't affected. It has been hypothezied that the moose in the ADKs are less likely to be affected because the densities of deer aren't high enough to affect the moose unlike places in NH where the moose population is cratering. CWD is a deer disease of note to watch for, but it's an issue driven by densities much higher than anything we'll see in the ADKs.

Most of the deer populations in the ADKs are kept low by winters and food supply. The ADKs get lots of snow because they're in the general lake effect band combined with coastal storms an augmented by elevation which increases adiabatic cooling and therefore increased precipitation (air is cooled as it is forced upwards and cooler air holds less moisture). Of late, I'd wager that the if anything the population is slowly increasing. Any effect from climate change would be slightly shorter winters, and I'd expect that trend to continue. It'll still be cold and snowy in the winter, but maybe a month or so shorter on average. It's not the bad January that kills them, it's a bad November combined with a bad March/April. I think that the brutal winters of the late 60s/early 70s combined with the end of timber cutting in a lot of places as well as loss of tree species, really decimated the deer herd and it's been a long slow road to recovery.

Our camp has been keeping records for buck take on the season for 50+ years and they've gone from 0-1-2 buck years to 5-6 and 7-8 years of late.
Fly Rodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:09 PM   #22
chaser
pond jockey
 
chaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: At the helm
Posts: 451
Bottom line, for those of us who do hunt in more remote, "higher" areas I'm willing to wager it's not all about filling a freezer or annually harvesting a buck, but just to be wandering around inside Blue Line in the fall?? Just going back to the wall tent at night or waking up bitching about nobody stoking the fire last night is enough for me, albeit a 10 pointer would make me smile more!!!!
__________________
success only comes before work in the dictionary.
chaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:15 PM   #23
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,563
I havenít hunted in over 30 years but almost always see plenty of deer sign in my off-trail Adirondack travels over the years. Granted, itís usually mostly doe signs but also the occasional tree rubs that make me miss my hunting days & giggle at claims of lack of deer in remote areas in the Adirondacks.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:26 PM   #24
chaser
pond jockey
 
chaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: At the helm
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I havenít hunted in over 30 years but almost always see plenty of deer sign in my off-trail Adirondack travels over the years. Granted, itís usually mostly doe signs but also the occasional tree rubs that make me miss my hunting days & giggle at claims of lack of deer in remote areas in the Adirondacks.
True that Justin, but one deer wandering far for feed make a lot of tracks.
__________________
success only comes before work in the dictionary.
chaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:30 PM   #25
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaser View Post
True that Justin, but one deer wandering far for feed make a lot of tracks.
...and rubs.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:31 PM   #26
chaser
pond jockey
 
chaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: At the helm
Posts: 451
Track a buck for a half mile, they make plenty
__________________
success only comes before work in the dictionary.
chaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:32 PM   #27
peskypup
Member
 
peskypup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NJ / Brant Lake
Posts: 224
Our camp is on the back side of Brant Lake, not too far from the Pharaoh Lake Wilderness at around 1100 feet elevation. We're there most weekends, and not a weekend goes by that we don't see deer either in our yard or our neighbor's yard or on the road going up the hill.
peskypup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:37 PM   #28
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaser View Post
Track a buck for a half mile, they make plenty
True. Same if you track a buck 1-2 miles from trail.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:44 PM   #29
chaser
pond jockey
 
chaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: At the helm
Posts: 451
Justin, pm sent.
__________________
success only comes before work in the dictionary.
chaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 12:02 AM   #30
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaser View Post
Justin, pm sent.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 10:30 AM   #31
yoshootme
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6
I live close by. I almost have more deer than hunters trespassing! lol
yoshootme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 11:40 AM   #32
Stillhunter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 397
Great topic Cpswing555. A lot of good input from other posters. Here is my view based in order of time and greatest impact. I have read and discussed this with many smart people and Adirondack old timers and hunters and this is where I am coming out on it at this point in time:

1) DEC permitted doe hunting in the 1960's. This had a "reset" effect on the deer to a new low level.
2) Severe winters followed this and further lowered the population to an even lower level. Late 1960's and early 1970's winters specifically.
3) Invasive coyote population expansion took off in the 70's and 80's. They are deer eating machines at fawning time and in the winter yards and kill far more than the DEC realizes or acknowledges.
4) Bad management policy. DEC should not allow the taking of does with the Muzzle Loader in central Adirondacks period. Removes the mature breeding does.
5) Cyclical severe winters keep the deer herd from rebounding.
6) Poaching is still a problem in some areas. Our Conservation Officers do a good job but it still exists and has an impact.

There is plenty of food in the mature woods if you look around you will see it. Deer are resilient and will be there in the face of the above but they will never rebound to old time levels due to the items above.
Stillhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 11:58 AM   #33
Stillhunter
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 397
A related article thought I would share. Contains some of the current perspective... Also has reference from Dan who is in on this thread...
https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/s...bate-over-deer
Stillhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 08:43 PM   #34
cutbait
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 19
Very good article - I agree with Billy Allan, and will say it again - just because you are not seeing deer does not mean they are not there -
From the article:
Billy Allan, an old-school hunter from Saranac Lake, offers this view of the sportsmenís gripes: ďTheyíre lousy woodsmen; thatís exactly why. You can sit in a stand for three weeks and not see a deer. The people that donít see deer, they either donít hunt very much or donít move around very much. Thereís six deer per square mile. Are you going to sit in one place or you going to go find one? If I donít see one for twenty minutes, Iím gone.Ē
Allan has hunted in the Saranac Lake region for nearly four decades. He reports seeing 100 to 150 deer each fall. ďI see about the same amount of deer every year, kill about the same amount of bucks every year,Ē he said. ďIíve never had any problem finding deer. In my estimate itís remained very steady overall.Ē
cutbait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 10:01 PM   #35
backwoodsman
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
With climate change are deer exposed to new parasites and diseases for which they haven't evolved resistance?

I see a lot of deer roadside near Jay and Keene. I see so many that when it's dark I keep my speed to no more than 50 mph, make sure to have my high beams on, the radio off and I remain on high alert.
Roadsides are an easy place for them to browse , powerlines are another.
backwoodsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 10:57 PM   #36
Woodly
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SNY
Posts: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoodsman View Post
Roadsides are an easy place for them to browse , powerlines are another.
and they will eat rocksalt
Woodly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 11:19 PM   #37
Justin
Moving along
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,563
There are still some nice deer in the Adirondacks, but like trout fishing, you’re not always going to get that trophy every time out like back in the good ol’ days, but if you put your time in, and work hard enough, and do your own research & explorations you just may get lucky.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 08:41 AM   #38
Buckladd
Member
 
Buckladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 1,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillhunter View Post
A related article thought I would share. Contains some of the current perspective... Also has reference from Dan who is in on this thread...
https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/s...bate-over-deer
Wow, much has changed since then. In the 3-4 years leading up to this article we were seeing a ton of coyotes. Not so much lately, although one of our guys killed one early this season. I’m not as quick to kill them when deer hunting anymore, but that’s another story.

It wasn't included in the article, but I remember discussing with this writer the same roller-coaster effect I mentioned earlier in this post. It comes with the territory. And I never liked the way this article made it sound like I disagreed with Ed Reed. Ed is a friend, a wealth of knowledge and excellent resource. We laughed about this after.
__________________
Life's short, hunt hard!
Buckladd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 09:05 PM   #39
Cpswing555
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 143
A lot of great feedback fellas. I guess the reason I raised the question was because of the total lack of sign I saw this year. I understand the facts that "cause your not seeing deer doesn't mean they're not there." I do understand that since I have been deer hunting for 30 years (including 8 adk seasons and love it). I know how to read sign and where to go look for sign. My question really spawned from spending a day hunting and not seeing a single track new or old in about an inch of snow. My partner ran into the same thing. He is a native Adirondacker ex forester and is probably the best woodsman and deer hunter I have ever met. (his brother in law being a close number 2). We didn't see a rub. Now we hunt back in deep. I have only ever seen 1 person back there and tracks one other time. The land we hunt has been timbered in chunks for the past ten years (they're almost done) It was just a tough couple days. We went to spots where we always found rubs (nothing), Beech pockets (nothing), beaver flow crossings (nothing), the edge of the cuts (nothing). The second day we went to a completely different spot where we did find a little sign from the night before, but nothing fresh. We returned the next day and came into the area a bit differently but saw nothing fresh. the next morning was more of the same. I guess the biggest thing I have picked up if that the doe hunting wiped them out, seasonal changes and predation are not allowing them to come back before a hard winter cycle or two hits, and they are more pocketed than I realized. thank you for all of the insight. best of luck to you all on the rest of the season.
CP
Cpswing555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 11:42 PM   #40
Mallard1100
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodly View Post
and they will eat rocksalt
Funny you say that..... a guy from my club was driving into camp and saw a monster buck on the road licking the salt as he came around a bend. Said he took a few massive bounds and was gone..... ghost
Mallard1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.