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Old 11-17-2009, 10:56 AM   #1
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Plane Crash - Newcomb

http://www.poststar.com/news/local/a...cc4c002e0.html

news article states that the crash was near Mount Santanoni.
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:13 PM   #2
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Santanoni: This is the second wreck

I think that this wreck makes two, to date. On 7/16/84, a twin-engined Piper PA-34 crashed into Santanoni at 3,500 feet. Two people died. I've never been able to determine where (what side of the mountain) the first plane hit. Santanoni might be on a recognized glide path. For small recreational planes, I think that there are now five wrecks within the boundaries of the High Peaks Wilderness Area. If the new wreck were to be on the same side as the older wreck, then the debris fields could be within 400 vertical feet of eachother. Is it getting crowded up there?
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:56 PM   #3
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My thoughts are with the two gentleman who died in the wreck. It reminds me of the fragility of life.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:16 PM   #4
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The Adirondack Almanack has a good post on the history of Adirondack plane crashes - http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/20...-airplane.html
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:22 PM   #5
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I think that this wreck makes two, to date. On 7/16/84, a twin-engined Piper PA-34 crashed into Santanoni at 3,500 feet. Two people died. I've never been able to determine where (what side of the mountain) the first plane hit. Santanoni might be on a recognized glide path. For small recreational planes, I think that there are now five wrecks within the boundaries of the High Peaks Wilderness Area. If the new wreck were to be on the same side as the older wreck, then the debris fields could be within 400 vertical feet of eachother. Is it getting crowded up there?
1. According to information I got ahold of, complied by Joe Rupp, former DEC ranger, the 1984 crash wreckage lies on the Henderson side (east side) of the mountain. A Lake Placid News article from the Week of July 19th, 1984 describes it the site as "unreachable by car or foot" and in Gary Hodgson's words, the site is in "a hairy spot". I figure the 1984 wreckage probably lies on in a very steep section of the east face of Santoni Peak in a spot marked by pure slides and/or cliffs and/or steep coniferous walls somewhat close to if not within the land just leased back to the state by Finch Pruyn.

2. As for small recreational planes in the High Peaks Wilderness, I know of the two Santanoni Peak crashes, the Mount Marshall Crash, the Boreas Mountain crash, Street Mountain crash, Nye Mountain crash, Round Mountain crash, and the Sawtooth Range crash? I do believe however that the Nye Mountain crash wreckage and Sawtooth Range crash wreckage have since been removed so I think there are still the remains of six small recreational planes scattered about the High Peaks Wilderness. Additionally and you probably already knew about this, there was of course the B47 crash on Wright Peak in the early 60s. The B47 is obviously not a small recreational plane, but just mentioning it in terms of plane crashes in the High Peaks. Not many people know about the Sikorsky S-55 helicopter crash on Basin Mountain in August of 1964. Outside of the High Peaks Wilderness, but on a High Peak...two gliders also crashed on Whiteface Mountain in 1980.

3. Since the article linked about this new crash states it was 1200 feet south of the summit, I think the crashes are a good half-mile to three-quarters of a mile away from one another at least...on opposite sides of the Twin slides to put it another way.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:10 PM   #6
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Round and Basin? Didn't know of those, do you know of any links to these crashes?
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:07 PM   #7
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Round and Basin? Didn't know of those, do you know of any links to these crashes?
You can find links to newspaper articles on them in NNYLN electronic database and the crash investigation report on the NTSB sites. I'm a little too lazy right now to look the sites up but being absolutely obsessed with random Adirondack trivia, I can summarize the two crashes for you.

August 6th, 1964 - A Conservation Department (DEC precursor) Sikorsky S-55 (I think its pretty much the same thing as the S-19) was transporting materials to Mount Marcy to build shelters close to the summit (which I have since been disassembled). There were two men in the crash, both survived, who were in their early thirties or late twenties I want to say so they may still be alive today. I have no idea if the wreckage was ever removed or about the extent of the damage to the helicopter.

December 6th, 1977 - 25 year old pilot Timothy Schneider crashed his two passenger Cessna 152 into Round Mountain while scouting out possible places to ice climb. He, too, was able to make it safely down the mountain without an injuries and said that his plane just stalled. I don't believe the wreckage was ever removed and I don't know about the extent of the damage to the plane or the location of the crash on the mountain. I am not sure if Mr. Schneider is still alive. I think one of the Goodwins, I want to say Tony?, wrote the article I read about it.

Hope that helps. I hope to hike out to one or both of them some day, that is, if they're both still there. I've tried looking up the two men were in the helicopter crash and I tried contacting the company the helicopter belonged to, but both were dead ends. The crash was 45 years ago so the two men might not even be alive today. The DEC wasn't even around so they didn't really have anything in terms of records.

I was trying to brainstorm how a person might be able to locate the wreckage. If you had the time, money, and equipment, maybe a fly-over with a possible side scanner radar device or perhaps some sort of infrared device (I'd imagine metal, even rusted, might show up if it wasn't totally covered by vegetation, blow-down, or in the winter - snow). Short of just wandering around up there and getting lucky, I don't know how else you could find it - if, of course, it's there.

I am working on a website with information on all of the plane crashes that have occurred over the years in the Adirondacks (and it is as I type this that I realize how creepily morbid that sounds, egh). I should be able to get a lot done between semesters this winter so if you're still interested, I'll post a link when I make some headway on it.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:02 PM   #8
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I am working on a website with information on all of the plane crashes that have occurred over the years in the Adirondacks (and it is as I type this that I realize how creepily morbid that sounds, egh).
No, it is not creepy or morbid.

People have a fascination with visiting sites of unusal events - normal people have such fasinations.

Plane crashes are unusual - think of all the car crashes resulting in deaths in the Park - anyone ever ask "where was that, I want to visit it" or "is there a web site listing all of them?" No, because they are not unusual - just as tragic but not unusual.

I was "invited" to NYC just 6-weeks after 911 to "see the site." Me and 10,000's of others. There were tourist maps of relevant 911 places already on the market. It is normal human nature to want to see where tragedy took place.

Have you ever been to Gettysburg? It focuses on the dead, not the victory, for the same reason.

Go to ADKhighpeaks.com and seach for "planes" - you'll find threads about plane crash sites describing them as "cool" and "here's some pics" and "how do you get there?" All natural human responses.

The only unatural thing is people who act like they have no interest in visiting such places.
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:21 AM   #9
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Thanks, Maps.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:12 AM   #10
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There was also a crash in September of 59 on Mt MacNaughton with Chester Jackson as piolot killing 1 and injuring 4.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:16 AM   #11
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For those who are interested in plane crashes I came accross the following. Not all were on Mts but in the Adirondacks.



Wednesday, November 18, 2009
A Short History of Adirondack Airplane Crashes

Yesterday's tragic death of two in the crash of a Piper Cherokee 140 single engine aircraft en route from Saratoga to Malone recalls the sometimes perilous nature of airplane travel in the Adirondacks. While the investigation is still underway, New York State Police have confirmed that Daniel R. Wills, age 48, of North Bangor, and his passenger Ronald E. Rouselle, age 66, of Malone, were killed in a crash that appears to have occurred at about 4,600 feet near Tahawas in the Santanoni Mountain Range in Newcomb. The accident appears to be the second fatal crash at Santanoni; a 1984 crash of a small private plane at Santanoni Peak also killed two. That same year a Cessna 206 crashed into Boreas Mountain. That aircraft, containing the skeleton of the pilot, was discovered by hikers in 1990.

Here is a list of nearly 30 plane crashes that have happened in the Adirondacks since 1912:

1912 - A Curtiss-Wright Bi-plane fitted with pontoons (believed to be the first airplane to fly over the Adirondacks) crashed into Raquette Lake; the pilot (Robert J. Collier, heir to Colliers weekly and the first President of the Aero Club of America) was unhurt and the plane was salvaged.

1926 - A private plane attempting to land on Lake George plunges through thin ice; the pilot and two passengers, who were on their way to Lake Placid were rescued by boat.

1928 - George Walker, the 27 year old President of Albany Air Service, crashed his Waco biplane into the Nazarene Church steeple in Wilmington. Two local boys were with him in the plane and they escaped unhurt, but Walker was seriously injured and it was considered a miracle he survived.

1931 - Three people were injured when their private plane crashed into a tree while landing at a makeshift airport on the Baldwin-Ticonderoga Road.

1934 - American Airlines Curtis Condor biplane crashes into Wilder Mountain, all four onboard survived.

1939 - The motor of a small private plane failed to gain altitude while taking off from Lake Clear Airport. The pilot, Herman Perry of Paul Smiths, survived.

1939 - One woman was injured when a chartered seaplane crashed into Pollywog Pond near the Saranac Inn. The pilot and another passenger were unhurt.

1942 - One man is killed and one survives when they stole an Aeronca from the Wesport air strip, ran out of gas, and crashed between Moriah and Port Henry.

1943 - Two Royal Canadian Air Force flyers on a training mission crashed into Wilmington Peak, north of the Whiteface Memorial Highway, in a snowstorm. They had been circling looking for a place to land; both men were killed.

1944 - Army National Guard C-46 transport crashes three miles west of Lewes Lake on Blue Ridge Mountain near Speculator. The wreckage was discovered in August 1945 by searchers looking for a civilian plane that went down between Lake Placid and Booneville.

1945 - A two seat Taylorcraft crashed on Labounty Hill, about a half mile from Saranac Lake; both the plane's occupants were killed.

1945 - A small plane carrying three people flying from Lake Placid to Rome, NY crashed on Bullhead Mountain in Johnsburg. A search failed to locate the accident site and it remained undiscovered until a hunter came upon the crash several months later, along with the two women and one male pilot who were killed in the crash.

1950 - Two men survive the crash of their Fairchild trainer when it goes down off River Road in Lake Placid.

1958 - Julian Reiss, owner of Santa's Workshop, and his daughter crashed near Moose Pond but were able to walk out to safety a day later. When Reiss returned to the spot in hopes of salvaging the plane, he discovered someone had stolen the planes 450 pound engine.

1959 - A NYS Department of Conservation plane on a fish stocking mission crashed into the side of Mt. MacNaughton after taking off from Lake Clear Airport. Four survived, but Chester Jackson of Saranac Lake was killed.

1962 - A B-47 bomber crashes into Wright Peak while on a training mission; four were killed.

1969 - The deadliest aircraft accident in Adirondack history occurred when a Mohawk Airlines commuter turbojet crashed into a mountain near Pilot Knob on Lake George. The plane had left New York City, made a stop in Albany to discharge 33 passengers, and was circling for a landing at the Warren County Regional Airport in Queensbury when it went off course. All fourteen on board were killed.

1969 - A Cherokee 140 piloted by F. Peter Simmons crashed in Iroquois Mountain. Simmons was badly hurt but was rescued and recovered.

1972 - A Bonanza en route from Montreal to Albany with two on board is reported missing. A hunter discovers the wreckage and two bodies near Meacham Lake in 1973.

1974 - An F-106 jet on a training mission from Griffiss Air Force base crashes near Hopkinton. The body of the pilot, who ejected before the crash, is found 20 miles away near Seveys Corners.

1978 - An eleven passenger Piper Navajo crashes at 3,100 feet near the summit of Nye Mountain. Three were killed, but a dog on the plane walked through miles of wilderness and arrived at Lake Placid 10 days later.

1980 - A Beechcraft Baron carrying two pilots and a family of three crashes into Blue Hill on its approach to Lake Clear; all five are killed.

1984 - A small private plane crashes into Santanoni Peak killing two.

1984 - A Cessna 206 crashes into Boreas Mountain. The aircraft and the skeleton of the pilot, are discovered by hikers in 1990.

1986 - Two Massachusetts Air National Guard A-10 Thunderbolt jets crashed near Wells while training. One of the plane's pilots was killed; the otehr safely ejected.

1992 - An early morning Plattsburgh flight of a USAir Express 19 commuter plane crashes into Blue Hill while descending to land at Lake Clear; two of the four on board survive.

2000 - Two men barely survive the crash of a small private plane near Lake Placid.

2004 - A single engine Piper Arrow crashes within a mile of Lake Clear Airport while en route to Virginia. Pilot Paul Grulich and his wife Alice were both killed.

2007 - A twin engine Beech private plane crashes at Lake Clear Airport killing the pilot.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:17 AM   #12
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Thanks for all the input, Maps. I believe that there is also a small plane crash on Seward, the plane reportedly hit the "Chinese Wall" on 6/27/70. Five people died; it was a Piper PA-32. What is the scoop on the Street Mt crash, I've never heard about that one? I'm told that a small wreck is on Old Far, but that peak might (I think) be outside the HPWA.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:30 PM   #13
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Thanks for all the input, Maps. I believe that there is also a small plane crash on Seward, the plane reportedly hit the "Chinese Wall" on 6/27/70. Five people died; it was a Piper PA-32. What is the scoop on the Street Mt crash, I've never heard about that one? I'm told that a small wreck is on Old Far, but that peak might (I think) be outside the HPWA.
Damn, the Mount Seward crash I knew of but it slipped my mind. Ugh, disappointed in myself for forgetting that one. I've heard of the Old Far Mountain wreck, but I'm not sure where it is. I only know of one Old Far Mountain, which I believe is in the Dix Range and actually lies adjacent to I-87 near Jug Pond. There could be and probably is another Old Far Mountain though.

The Street Mountain crash was back in the late 50s - 58 or 59. I've actually been to it before...not an easy site to get it. I don't recommend it, especially any time after October or before late May. The plane was a DeHavilland Otter used by the Conservation Department to stock fish. Four or five men were in the plane when it went down. One died I believe and the rest walked out. It is listed as being on Mount MacNaughton on adkman's list, but it is actually on Street.

Thanks to adkman for putting that list up. There are a couple on there I wasn't familiar with but there are some I know of that aren't there. Interestingy, note from that list that the 1969 crash is said to be on Iroquois, when it was in fact on Mount Marshall. Not a huge deal unless you're looking for the plane. I'm sure Mr. Simmons is glad it was Mount Marshall instead of Iroquois though because as I remember reading he nearly missed the rocky summit of Iroquois Peak and was somehow able to bring the plane down, fuselage intact, somewhere on Mount Marshall.

Also, parts of the 1934 crash on Wilder was recovered in the late 60s or 70s, taken apart and I believe is now somewhere in working condition in California.

I believe they did catch the person who was stealing parts of the Weiss plane, too. I'll have to find the article.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:48 PM   #14
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The helicopter that crashed on Basin was repaired on the site and flown out. As I recall, the cause was stated as "fuel starvation", but I don't know if it was a blocked fuel line or the pilot thought he could make one more trip before filling up. Rangers created a small landing pad for the "rescue" helicopter which made many trips past my family cabin on Johns Brook over the course of the week to bring parts to the crashed helicopter.
I wrote up the story on the Round Mt. crash for the Lake Placid News. The pilot was not terribly experienced and apparently stalled the plane as he was turning to go back and take another look at the cliffs. He was flying slowly, which is why he probably survived. The wreckage of that plane was removed.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:09 PM   #15
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The helicopter that crashed on Basin was repaired on the site and flown out. As I recall, the cause was stated as "fuel starvation", but I don't know if it was a blocked fuel line or the pilot thought he could make one more trip before filling up. Rangers created a small landing pad for the "rescue" helicopter which made many trips past my family cabin on Johns Brook over the course of the week to bring parts to the crashed helicopter. I wrote up the story on the Round Mt. crash for the Lake Placid News. The pilot was not terribly experienced and apparently stalled the plane as he was turning to go back and take another look at the cliffs. He was flying slowly, which is why he probably survived. The wreckage of that plane was removed.
Ah, good to know. Thanks.

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There was also a crash in September of 59 on Mt MacNaughton with Chester Jackson as piolot killing 1 and injuring 4.
That crash wasn't on MacNaughton. It was actually on Street.
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Old 11-21-2009, 05:51 AM   #16
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This thread has sparked an interest for me to do a few archive look-ups, to find several of these crashes listed and finding a few more.

Another one which hasn't been mentioned was the Sawtooth Crash in August of 1996, where the couple survived.
I found reference to the Conservation Department crash on MacNaughton. Stating it crashed near the top of the 3976' peak in September 1959.
One for Winch Mountain, near Whiteface in 1943.
Of Course, Nye, Marshall, Boreas, Old Far, Bullhead, Seward, Wright, Averill Peak, Santanoni in 1984 crashes.
Interesting thread and interesting finding the actual articles to read about them. Unfortunately several small children were killed. It was a family of five killed on Seward, with the boys being only 12, 9, 4 yrs. old.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:12 AM   #17
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Ah, good to know. Thanks.



That crash wasn't on MacNaughton. It was actually on Street.
Interesting Any refferance I can find only mentions MacNaughton, including the DEC's report. Where did you find this?
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:41 PM   #18
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Interesting Any refferance I can find only mentions MacNaughton, including the DEC's report. Where did you find this?
The article I found that best indicates the location of the crash, which occurred Sunday, 09.20.1959, is in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise dated Monday, 09.21.1959. It explained that the plane was over MacNaughton/Wallface ponds area when mechanical trouble first started. The plane continued northward probably coming close to Wallface and going over what we now call Lost Pond Peak before trying to pull up out of Roaring Brook Valley via over Street. It never made it though. The plane stalled and then literally fell apart in mid air. Wings and pontoons - gone. It's actually a miracle that four of the five men survived, much less were able to bushwhack out to the trail, two of whom even made it to Duck Hole 4.5 - 5 miles away.

It is interesting that you said you came across a DEC report saying the crash was on MacNaughton. Have the name of that source? I'd like to see it. I think the Lake Placid News article indicates it was on MacNaughton, but to be fair...half the PDF/microfilm is unreadable for that article.

Additionally, I've also spoke, about a year and a half ago, with a ranger who had been to the site years ago.

Finally, I myself have been to the site this past year. Unfortunately, in what was quite possibly was the most frustrating bushwhack ever, the rain destroyed both my digital camera and memory card.

I hope that helps.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:21 AM   #19
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Hello everyone. I have never hiked before in the Adirondacks. I am from Vermont. Dan Wills gave me a check ride when I got my private pilot certificate. I have never seen Mt Santanoni. I'm having a hard time to believe Dan is gone. The hiking trails sound like you need some great hip waders for the mud. I have hiked Mt Mansfield, Camels Hump and Belvidere Mountain in Vermont before.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:54 AM   #20
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I think the Lake Placid News article indicates it was on MacNaughton, but to be fair...half the PDF/microfilm is unreadable for that article.
Thank You. I found the reference article in Adirondack Enterprise.

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Hello everyone. I have never hiked before in the Adirondacks. I am from Vermont. Dan Wills gave me a check ride when I got my private pilot certificate. I have never seen Mt Santanoni. I'm having a hard time to believe Dan is gone. The hiking trails sound like you need some great hip waders for the mud. I have hiked Mt Mansfield, Camels Hump and Belvidere Mountain in Vermont before.
So sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. A great friend of mine also knew Dan and his passenger and was pretty shaken up telling me the story of what she knew.
You won't be able to get to the plane crash site by trail or herdpath, it's a bushwhack, as it's on the Twin Slides of Santanoni.

My understanding is, the other crash on Santanoni in 1984 was also on the Twin Slides, just several feet apart. Very sad and tragic on both accidents.
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