Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The latest on Eastern Wolves

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The latest on Eastern Wolves

    Has been given the name Algonquin Wolf to avoid confusion with Eastern Coyotes.

    Genetic purity of the species has been restored in areas without hunting. Like Gray Wolves hybridization occurs only when the pack structure is under human induced pressure.

    The latest DNA evidence proves the Algonquin wolf is not a Gray Wolf nor is it a cross between Gray Wolves and Coyotes. It is a distinct species that evolved independently in North America long before Gray Wolves entered North America from Asia.

    For those wishing to see wolves return to the ADK's established packs of pure Algonquin Wolves have taken up residence in protected areas between Algonquin and Adirondack Park. Unfortunately these are isolated and vulnerable pockets. Perhaps another reason for a greater Algonquin to Adirondack Wildlife Corridor.

    The Algonquin Wolf lack the adaptability of Coyotes and Hybrids. They are forest dwellers and feed exclusively on beaver and whitetail deer. Coyotes and Hybrids eat everything from berries, grass, bugs to rodents and only occasionally deer. They are not as tolerant of hunting and trapping pressure. They form a social structure similar to Gray Wolves with smaller packs.
    Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

  • #2
    Thanks for the info.
    Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

    Comment


    • #3
      All I could think of after reading that was how hard it must be to catch a beaver.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gman View Post
        Has been given the name Algonquin Wolf to avoid confusion with Eastern Coyotes.

        Genetic purity of the species has been restored in areas without hunting. Like Gray Wolves hybridization occurs only when the pack structure is under human induced pressure.

        The latest DNA evidence proves the Algonquin wolf is not a Gray Wolf nor is it a cross between Gray Wolves and Coyotes. It is a distinct species that evolved independently in North America long before Gray Wolves entered North America from Asia.

        For those wishing to see wolves return to the ADK's established packs of pure Algonquin Wolves have taken up residence in protected areas between Algonquin and Adirondack Park. Unfortunately these are isolated and vulnerable pockets. Perhaps another reason for a greater Algonquin to Adirondack Wildlife Corridor.

        The Algonquin Wolf lack the adaptability of Coyotes and Hybrids. They are forest dwellers and feed exclusively on beaver and whitetail deer. Coyotes and Hybrids eat everything from berries, grass, bugs to rodents and only occasionally deer. They are not as tolerant of hunting and trapping pressure. They form a social structure similar to Gray Wolves with smaller packs.

        Not sure the Adirondacks is the place for them. The increasing amount of tourist, hikers etc would only lead to more of these incidents.

        Wolf-Human Incidents in Algonquin Provincial Park, Canada On September 27th, 1998 in Algonquin Provincial Park, Canada a 19-month old boy was grabbed by a wolf and tossed three feet. Much of the following information was related to me by the park's Chief Naturalist Dan Strickland and helps put the incident in perspective: A wolf, believed

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JohnnyVirgil View Post
          All I could think of after reading that was how hard it must be to catch a beaver.
          They can smell beaver underwater and where the beaver have frequented onshore. A beaver taking down a tree or saplings is especially vulnerable. They will wait beside those little canals beaver make and open spots beaver come ashore in winter.
          Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by adkman12986 View Post
            Not sure the Adirondacks is the place for them. The increasing amount of tourist, hikers etc would only lead to more of these incidents.

            http://www.wolf.org/wow/canada/ontar...interactions1/
            Yeah, most people don't want a wilderness that is wild. Insanity rules.
            "A culture is no better than its woods." W.H. Auden

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by geogymn View Post
              Yeah, most people don't want a wilderness that is wild. Insanity rules.
              Sarcasm aside, any introduction of wolves to the ADK's would likely have a tremendous ecological impact, especially on population #'s for certain native species like coyote and deer. Go read about what happened to the elk #'s in Yellowstone immediate following the wolf introduction there if you want some context on that issue.

              IMHO, a natural migration of wolves back into the ADK's seems highly unlikely due to numerous obstacles, man-made and natural, between their current range in Canada and upstate NY. As well, the wolves still have plenty of growing room, so to speak, in Canada where there is plenty of pristine wolf-country...meaning there is lots of wilderness with little human presence. An artificial introduction to the ADK's would be required to get them here in the short term and such an introduction would require political buy-in from a lot of different groups and communities on a lot of different topics. There would have to be expectation management on hunting deer (which would see a serious decrease in #'s), residents and visitors would need a whole lot more education and awareness, and the state would need the leeway to develop and execute a sound management plan (which would no doubt include hunting and culling measures to ensure that the wolf #'s didn't get out of hand)....that last point is almost always a point of contention where ever wolves are. It has been an ongoing and bitter struggle for states out west to manage their native wolf populations, despite the fact that wolves in most of those areas have met the criteria for de-listing from the Endangered Species Act.

              All in all, I'd say people shouldn't hold their breath over wolf re-introduction. I think cougar have a better chance of making it back into the ADK's, and that's saying a lot considering how they're no where near that stage of their natural expansion.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gman View Post
                They can smell beaver underwater and where the beaver have frequented onshore. A beaver taking down a tree or saplings is especially vulnerable. They will wait beside those little canals beaver make and open spots beaver come ashore in winter.
                Cool, thanks for that info.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bounder45 View Post
                  Sarcasm aside, any introduction of wolves to the ADK's would likely have a tremendous ecological impact, especially on population #'s for certain native species like coyote and deer. Go read about what happened to the elk #'s in Yellowstone immediate following the wolf introduction there if you want some context on that issue.

                  IMHO, a natural migration of wolves back into the ADK's seems highly unlikely due to numerous obstacles, man-made and natural, between their current range in Canada and upstate NY. As well, the wolves still have plenty of growing room, so to speak, in Canada where there is plenty of pristine wolf-country...meaning there is lots of wilderness with little human presence. An artificial introduction to the ADK's would be required to get them here in the short term and such an introduction would require political buy-in from a lot of different groups and communities on a lot of different topics. There would have to be expectation management on hunting deer (which would see a serious decrease in #'s), residents and visitors would need a whole lot more education and awareness, and the state would need the leeway to develop and execute a sound management plan (which would no doubt include hunting and culling measures to ensure that the wolf #'s didn't get out of hand)....that last point is almost always a point of contention where ever wolves are. It has been an ongoing and bitter struggle for states out west to manage their native wolf populations, despite the fact that wolves in most of those areas have met the criteria for de-listing from the Endangered Species Act.

                  All in all, I'd say people shouldn't hold their breath over wolf re-introduction. I think cougar have a better chance of making it back into the ADK's, and that's saying a lot considering how they're no where near that stage of their natural expansion.
                  Nothing at all like Yellowstone. Different wolf. If they weren't hunted on the A2A corridor its entirely possible they would be back in ADK Park. They have no choice but to drift south as Algonquin is shifting from whitetail to moose. Either that or adapt to preying on moose (larger packs). They are eating mostly beaver because of the lack of deer in the Park.
                  Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gman View Post
                    Nothing at all like Yellowstone. Different wolf.
                    It might be a slightly different wolf from the one out west, but these 'eastern' wolves do breed with the ones from the west, so the differences might not be as pronounced as some like to think. And wolves will greatly affect the #'s prey species, especially deer, mostly because the deer haven't had to cope with apex predators for quite some time now. There are valid parallels to draw from the Yellowstone example...a wolf will act like a wolf.


                    Originally posted by Gman View Post
                    If they weren't hunted on the A2A corridor its entirely possible they would be back in ADK Park. They have no choice but to drift south as Algonquin is shifting from whitetail to moose. Either that or adapt to preying on moose (larger packs). They are eating mostly beaver because of the lack of deer in the Park.
                    Once again, I think we're seeing an example of someone trying to build a self-feeding narrative. Hunting isn't the reason wolves haven't expanded their range back into the ADK's. Wolves have been hunted in Canada and Alaska for quite some time now, and despite that their range was gradually expanded. Natural habitat (and with that food sources) will dictate where wolves naturally move to. There is a whole lot of civilization between their current range in Canada and the upstate NY. Why would a wolf want to deal with all that when it has plenty of wilderness in northern Ontario and Montreal filled with plenty of prey species?
                    Last edited by Bounder45; 11-21-2016, 11:09 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      " Why would a wolf want to deal with all that when it has plenty of wilderness in northern Ontario and Montreal filled with plenty of prey species?"

                      Why did the Cougar leave the Dakotas and end up in Connecticut? Why do moose end up in highly populated areas? When you figure these answers out then we'll buy your book.
                      Until then your theories are the same as every other member of this forum: Very Common.
                      Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Schultzz View Post
                        Why did the Cougar leave the Dakotas and end up in Connecticut?
                        Well there are plenty of examples of transient individuals of many different species travelling far outside their natural range. The OP's focus was on a wolves re-occupying the ADK's, which entails the establishment of a breeding population...that's not as simple as how far an individual can travel.

                        Originally posted by Schultzz View Post
                        Why do moose end up in highly populated areas?
                        Moose generally-speaking don't end up in highly populated areas. That's why despite the estimated 800 Moose that currently inhabit upstate NY, they are very rarely seen.

                        Originally posted by Schultzz View Post
                        When you figure these answers out then we'll buy your book.
                        Until then your theories are the same as every other member of this forum: Very Common.
                        My statements are opinions for sure, though I have no intention of writing a book. But alluding back to our previous discussion on cougar and coyote expansion, I prefer to base my opinion on what is probable rather than what is possible. Yes, it's possible for wolves to naturally move back into the ADK's, but given all of the natural and man-made obstacles in their way, and given how much wilderness there is in the northern parts of Ontario and Montreal (much of it with very little human presence), it just doesn't seem probable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This thread is interesting. Always good to see a wolf thread where the dialogue sticks mostly to the facts and hypotheses and where the personal attacks, innuendos and usual bs are kept to a minimum. That's about as rare as wolves are in Montreal.

                          According to a Quebec wildlife biologist to whom I e-mailed pics of some fresh wolf tracks, wolves range as far south as within 50 miles of Montreal.
                          The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This population of Eastern Wolves is all that is left of the original wolf of the North Eastern US. Ironically it was not native to Alonquin Park. It ended up there as a last refuge from human persecution and as the whitetail migrated north. Algonquin is turning back into moose country. Deer do not over winter anymore in the Park.

                            Again the species either adapts, moves south with the whitetail or becomes completely swallowed up cross breeding with coyotes.

                            People have to decide is something unique like this worth preserving? Or is a Gray, Eastern or Hybrid all the same thing?
                            Izaak Walton a great writer? He can't even spell COMPLETE.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Schultzz View Post
                              " Why do moose end up in highly populated areas?
                              Brainworm for one reason.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X