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alombard
04-07-2008, 11:20 PM
A buddy of mine sent me these pictures. Taken in the NY/PA border near Elmira. Not near the ADK's but still pretty interesting......

Grayelve
04-08-2008, 12:19 AM
Nice pictures of the young rascal full of curiosity. They are around here in the southerntier into Pa. but seldom seen though they leave thier signs.

1ADAM12
04-08-2008, 07:18 AM
I have seen these pics before and I live in the Elmira area. I really don't think they are from around here I kinda heard those pics were a hoax but hey I guess it could happen.

Here in PA just over the boarder from Elmira people have seen them in the PA Grand Canyon so I know they are around!

Adam

ADKHUNTER
04-08-2008, 07:27 AM
If you google it you'll see that that same pic is credited with porches across the country. I believe its really a western cat.

Ed

adkmoose
04-08-2008, 07:47 AM
If you google it you'll see that that same pic is credited with porches across the country. I believe its really a western cat.

Ed

How do you go about " Googling " a photo ?

redhawk
04-08-2008, 07:55 AM
How do you go about " Googling " a photo ?

Type in your search string and then click on the "Images" link above the search entry field

Hawk

ADK Tank
04-08-2008, 08:02 AM
Here is what I posted about this same set of pictures in the Black Panther thread a few weeks back.


Here is a link to an article from Jackson Hole area and even mentions this wonderful forum in it. Unfortunately they aren't from this area.

http://www.planetjh.com/opinion/A_100596.aspx

And the link to the Snopes page.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/patiomountainlion.asp

ADKHUNTER
04-08-2008, 08:26 AM
Type in your search string and then click on the "Images" link above the search entry field

Hawk

What he said.:D

adkmoose
04-08-2008, 08:30 AM
Type in your search string and then click on the "Images" link above the search entry field

Hawk

Cool beans, You learn something new every day.
Thanks

Hobbitling
04-08-2008, 08:54 AM
heres a good one.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/1731893232_795aede304.jpg

Adk Keith
04-08-2008, 09:59 AM
heres a good one.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/1731893232_795aede304.jpg

I love that one!

A buddy of mine sent me these pictures. Taken in the NY/PA border near Elmira. Not near the ADK's but still pretty interesting......

Sorry Alex

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/patiomountainlion.asp

DRIFTER
04-08-2008, 12:49 PM
heres a good one.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/1731893232_795aede304.jpg


It was a good one!:rolling: :rolling:

FrankCoz
04-10-2008, 12:36 PM
There was a good article in The Conservationist's February 2008 issue by Scott Van Arsdale, who works for DEC in Stamford and routinely investigates Cougar sightings.

chairrock
04-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Enough to make you cry.....
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/04/15/dnt.il.cougar.shot.wls

ellsaf
04-15-2008, 03:01 PM
I'll never understand why someone would want to kill or harm such a beautiful animal that may soon disappear from the face of the Earth. I couldn't hear the audio -maybe they explained why they had to kill it instead of tranquilizing and removing to a better location?

redhawk
04-15-2008, 03:04 PM
I'll never understand why someone would want to kill or harm such a beautiful animal that may soon disappear from the face of the Earth. I couldn't hear the audio -maybe they explained why they had to kill it instead of tranquilizing and removing to a better location?

The fact that someone had to videotape it and make it public speaks volumes for whats going wrong.

Hawk

coolrobc
04-15-2008, 03:35 PM
I think in this case, considering it was running around an urban area in the middle of the day, shooting it was justified.

If the cat had mauled someone on the street there'd be outcry over the police department's failure to respond appropriately.

1894
04-15-2008, 07:14 PM
The kitty was also within a block or two of an elementry school . The police had called animal control and were waiting for them , before there was a tranq gun on scene the cornered cougar made a run at the cops . That is when they started shooting. Very sad for the cat , but , at least noones kids were hurt.

Gray Ghost
04-15-2008, 10:43 PM
That just sucks. Couldn't people just stay inside until the tranq. arrived? This reminds me of officers killing a moose on the UVM campus last fall. Completely ridiculous.

Mavs00
04-16-2008, 08:42 AM
Oh my god. Are we gonna get into another debate on a thread started about a bunch of fake photos. :banghead:

The cops in an urban IL town are probably QUITE UNPREPARED for the presence of 5', 120-125 lb, dangerous predator that just shows up in it's midst one day. These animals are quick, elusive and you cannot easily tranquilize them in the best of circumstances. The police cannot effective control the residents of that area that quickly (how could you). Plus, it apparently displayed aggression towards one or several of the officers. The cops, like they do EVERY DAY, had to make a split-second decision to sacrifice the animal, or put at further risks the citizens they are SWORN to protect. They probably made the right one here.

Here is another -LINK (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/apr/16/dna-test-may-reveal-incredible-cougar-trek/)- to the story. Towards the end of the story.

The unexpected visit fascinated researchers and put police officers in the unusual dilemma of balancing public safety with the beauty of an animal not seen in Chicago since the city's founding in the 19th century.

Most wildlife experts who have dealt with the potentially dangerous animal, also known as a mountain lion, said it's difficult to criticize the Chicago Police Department's decision to shoot the cougar Monday evening, saying that such animals pose a threat to humans and are difficult to effectively tranquilize.

Sucks that the animal was sacrificed, but I find it hard to criticize the police actions as well in this circumstances.

I find it more intriguing that this animal is suspected of migrated that far east from the Black Hills of SD all the way to Chicago. Almost makes is seem more plausible that the populations up north could drift south and into the Adirondacks.

Hobbitling
04-16-2008, 10:09 AM
They'll be able to tell if it was an escaped pet or a wild cat pretty easily from stomach contents and other ways. If it was eating corn based feed or corn fed meat Scientists can tell by measuring carbon and nitrogen isotopes from the fur and bones.

Lets just wait till they sort it out to start theorizing.

Mavs00
04-16-2008, 11:05 AM
They'll be able to tell if it was an escaped pet or a wild cat pretty easily from stomach contents and other ways. If it was eating corn based feed or corn fed meat Scientists can tell by measuring carbon and nitrogen isotopes from the fur and bones.

Lets just wait till they sort it out to start theorizing.

True enough. With DNA for sure. The reason is suggested that was because it was IN THE ARTICLE I linked too, 2nd & 3rd paragraph. {see below}

On Tuesday, veterinarians performed a necropsy, an autopsy for animals, on the 122-pound cougar at the Cook County Animal & Rabies Control facility in Bridgeview. Early evidence indicated that the cougar was of wild origin, rather than an escaped captive, and samples were taken for comparison with blood that a cougar left in January in Milton, Wis.

DNA analysis suggested that the Wisconsin animal was most similar to those that live in South Dakota, and experts say it may be the same specimen that eventually strayed into the city.

TheBugHouse
04-16-2008, 10:51 PM
That just sucks. Couldn't people just stay inside until the tranq. arrived? This reminds me of officers killing a moose on the UVM campus last fall. Completely ridiculous.
>
Consider the resources required to tranq/relocate. Killling that moose was the most humane/efficient action that could've taken place. True, it's an unfortunate situation, but relocation is not always, rarely even, the solution. Whats completely ridiculous is the concern over singular animals, rather than concern for proper herd management, habitat preservation, and available food source. As for the cat, yes it does suck, but I'm sure PD opening fire on a wild animal in downtown Chicago was most certainly a last resort.

Mavs00
04-17-2008, 12:01 PM
BugHouse,

Not only that, consider the situation in a thriving area in a Chicago suburb. I'm quite sure they didn't have a wildlife expert standing at the ready. Even local animal control officers likely didn't have the supplies/training to tranquilize a cougar. They probably would have needed to get someone over from the Cook Cty. Zoo, which would have been a delay of a couple hours. If they didn't have the animal sufficiently walled into an area it could not get out of. I can understand the immediacy the cops felt.

Most of the time, if you hear of one of these large, potentially dangerous to human animal, getting tranquilized and transported, it's on the fringes of the wilderness frontier towns, where the local ranger (equipped to tranquilize or trap them), probably lives on your street and can get to the "scene" in minutes.

Quite a difference in venue.

producer
04-18-2008, 01:17 PM
New to posting on the forum but I read them frequently, especially regarding this topic because I'm just interested in it.
Is there a link to the Feb 2008 article mentioned earlier in the thread?
Also, I find it difficult to believe a cougar would show up in Chicago not being an escaped pet. I don't know the surrounding area all that well, but how did it go unnoticed in such an urban and populated environment? I really believe its possible for them to make it to or survive in environments that are more wild or rural, but this seems difficult to believe. Lions are common in California, yet I personally have never heard of one showing up in South Central LA. I could be wrong and that's fine, and if I am I would love to know how it got to Chicago.

gulo
04-19-2008, 07:52 AM
This appears to have been a juvenile male, and adolescent toms, like adolescent boys, are incautious...they take more risks. Young toms are the pioneers. They have to move out of their natal territory, because their fathers will kill them. They have to keep moving through other tom's territories for the same reason, or maybe they stop to challenge one of them. They keep moving, looking for their own territory, in search of females, out beyond all the resident cougars. In this case, maybe, crossing entire states, crossing the Mississippi River, crossing Wisconsin farmland and the Illinois suburbs, entering the outskirts of Chicago, looking for females that aren't there.

The bodies that have turned up on the east side of the Mississippi basin, so far, have been young toms: http://www.cougarnet.org/bigpicture.html

There appears to be no breeding population, yet, east of the Mississippi. Just like in Florida, the females tend to stay much closer to their natal range, not following the young toms north into more developed regions, so there's no breeding taking place beyond the southern tip of the state.

Until the population base expands and migrates further east from the Dakotas, it could be some time before a female crosses the Mississippi (a young female was shot in SE SD last year). This cat appears to have stayed out of trouble, possibly dispersing hundreds of miles east, driven to search for females, until it was stopped on the streets of Chicago.

Collared cougars have been tracked into industrialized areas of Southern California, following riparian basins, following prey, right into the most urban environments. But unlike, say, a young Dakota cat, they've been raised and taught to negotiate suburban terrain. It's what's there, so they're adapted for it. And sometimes, they do get into trouble, and typically end up, like this one, shot, or roadkilled, or at best, tranquilized and removed.

The bloodwork may determine that this was the same cat confirmed in Wisconsin, which has already shown that it came from South Dakota genetic stock. If this is the case, it's remarkable that it didn't end up shot or hit sooner.

The last two that turned up in Illinois were felled by a bowhunter...and a train. One South Dakota juvenile male, this one collared, travelled 660 miles, into Oklahoma, before getting hit by a train. So it's not implausible that another young disperser made it so far east.

producer
04-20-2008, 09:21 PM
Look I understand the ranges of male cats and the reasoning as to why they can be in the east. its not implausible to make it farther east, I just think its extremely remarkable that this cat made it into downtown chicago without being seen, shot, or otherwise injured, like you said.

redhawk
04-20-2008, 09:46 PM
New to posting on the forum but I read them frequently, especially regarding this topic because I'm just interested in it.
Is there a link to the Feb 2008 article mentioned earlier in the thread?
Also, I find it difficult to believe a cougar would show up in Chicago not being an escaped pet. I don't know the surrounding area all that well, but how did it go unnoticed in such an urban and populated environment? I really believe its possible for them to make it to or survive in environments that are more wild or rural, but this seems difficult to believe. Lions are common in California, yet I personally have never heard of one showing up in South Central LA. I could be wrong and that's fine, and if I am I would love to know how it got to Chicago.

There are a lot of humans that won't show up in South central LA. :Peek:

The problem we humans make is that we always underestimate others, especially animals. Ever try to "raccoon proof" your garbage can? How about the bear in March dam that's "cracked" the bear vault?

What about these Moose that get into towns, undetected until there is an incident? And Cats are a lot stealthier then they are.

The Black Hills has I believe, the largest density of Cougar (Pume, Mountain Lion, take your pick, they're one and the same) population in the lower 48. It also has a very high human density for the area. it's the home of Mount Rushmore, Custer and Wind Cave Parks, the highest peak east of the Rockies (Harney Peak) and attracts a lot of tourism. In spite of the presence of that many cats and humans, there are few sightings.

Gray Ghost
04-21-2008, 12:36 AM
I commented on the cat without knowing all the cirumstances...silly me. I still feel bad for the animal's demise, but give the urban setting I guess the police did what they had to do.

I'll have to be convinced that killing the Moose at/near UVM was the right call, though. I'm willing to listen, though. I will say that just because shock and horror often accompany the fate of a single animal, this doesn't trivialize or lessen concern over the entire species in that area.

chairrock
05-05-2008, 06:53 PM
Another twist on kittys problems....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/05/05/jaguars.fence/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

dharter
05-05-2008, 07:19 PM
I had no idea that there was a resident population of Jaguar in that region. Thanks for posting that link.