View Full Version : Lessons to be learned from this.....

03-07-2007, 11:04 AM

03-07-2007, 11:18 AM
hmmm, a bunch of little kids, two 15 year olds, no adults, and a fire, in Utah, during a drought. I'm surprised nobody was killed.

03-07-2007, 02:18 PM
Accountability, we need more of it!!

03-07-2007, 04:12 PM
There are a number of lessons here to be learned and one is that if someone including the federal government knows you have money, they are going to try to get all of it.

A fire ban no adult supervision (endangering the wellfare of a child)
distruction of property...wait a minute. A fire is never out unless you turn the gas off. Fires are nice and I have them yet there is a time and place for them. A drought is not the time.
I can't believe that this crap happened. Maybe it's because the quality of scoutleader has gone down hill since I was in. Rolemodels....are there any around anymore?
As for the current fine that the court agreed upon. That is not a lot of trees yet it's going to take some time to plant those trees. I just hope they aslo have to babysit those trees for the next decade as well not just slam a bare root seedling in the ground and go!

03-08-2007, 09:11 AM
Son: Dad, How come the trees in this area look different than those other ones?
Father: Well son, because 25 years ago I accidentally burned them all down because I was unsupervised and started a campfire in the area when there wasn't supposed to be one because of a drought.
Son: Wow, no wonder billy's dad says your a dimwit. *silence, then crickets chirping in the background*

Note to scout leader: Please don't breed! :thumbs:

Seriously folks, this isn't rocket science. What in bloody hell would give someone the idea that two fifteen year olds is proper supervision for a cadre of pre-teens in the woods.

I was once affiliated with Civil Air Patrol (The USAF Auxiliary) at Fort Drum (as an adult officer) and can say most assuredly that although we had a cadet corps there was never any situation that came close to this idiocy. I had many cadets that were 16+ years old that were qualified to do ground searches and even several that were qualified ground team leaders and could do a search as good as some DEC crew bosses that I know. For that matter I had several cadets that by choice went through the rappelling portion of the army's "light fighter's school" and went on to receive their certificate of training as a rappel master. Even they were not allowed to be the sole supervision of their subordinates in any field exercise or bivouac. :banghead:

I went through the whole cub scout / webelos / boy scout / eagle scout process and was later involved in adult leadership of Civil Air Patrol (unrelated to the scouts) and can honestly say that given my current perception of the scouts I wouldn't have a child in the scouts if the national organization offered to pay all the costs, provide free transportation and give me a salary for being a parent. :mad:

My $0.02

DigitalNY (Ric)

03-08-2007, 10:32 AM
mmmm, the cold-out test .I'll have to remember that one as stated in the article. I've always stirred the wet fire pit well, with a stick,but never with my hand...

03-08-2007, 06:13 PM
With all due respect, DigitalNY, some scout troops are better than others. I have found in my own experience as an assistant scoutmaster that the more parental involvement, the safer, more enriching the experience for all, kids and adults. If the parents are going to stay at home, use scouts as another form of daycare and "let others do it" then you're going to have disasters such as this. All scouting activities are supposed to be supervised by two adults. The rule in our troop was "no adults, no activity." This incident is shocking and shows what can happen when adult supervision is totally absent. I do not think however, we need to disparage the entire organization because of this. I'm very proud of the time I spent in scouting, even though I was never a boy scout myself. In my son's age group there were eight kids. Seven became eagle scouts. No doubt my son was accepted at his preferred college in no small measure because he was an eagle scout. If your child wanted to join scouts, would you deny him the opportunity or would you let him join and volunteer yourself as a scoutmaster, thereby ensuring that safe and rewarding experience??? My suspicion is that you would elect the latter and you wouldn't need to be paid either!

03-17-2007, 06:24 PM
Wow... I have not heard that one yet. Being a fellow scout I had to comment. This troop should not be chartered any more for shier stupidity!

One point that I found frustrating is that wilderness survival, the badge the boys were working on, is to be done alone. If I am thinking of the requirement that they were working on, it states, and I QUOTE FROM A BOY SCOUT MERIT BADGE REQUIREMENT BOOK

"Show that you can find and improvise a natural shelter minimizing the damage to the environment. Then spend a night in your shelter by yourself."

Why were they together? I remember when I did this one, in fact I did in the Adirondacks, near Long Lake, and those woods are still there, so I must have done something right! The badge does have a requirement that you must build a fire showing 3 ways other than matches, but still, I donít think that says anything about burn the whole forest down!

Well I guess thatís why the Boy Scouts is requiring every troop to start to learn and live by the Outdoor Code... which goes

"As an American, I will do my best to -

Be clean in my outdoor manners.
I will treat the outdoors as a heritage.
I will take care of it for myself and others
I will keep my trash and garbage out of lakes, streams, fields, woods, and roadways.
Be careful with fire.
I will prevent wildfire.
I will build my fires only where they are appropriate.
When I have finished using a fire, I will make sure it is cold out.
I will leave a clean fire ring, or remove all evidence of my fire.
Be considerate in the outdoors.
I will treat public and private property with respect.
I will use low-impact methods of hiking and camping.

Be conservation minded
I will learn how to practice good conservation of soil, waters, forests, minerals, grasslands, wildlife, and energy.
I will urge others to do the same. "

We never really had to learn that until about 6 months ago. Now that I read this article I find the part about the preventing wildfires quite ironic!

The merit badge is a great merit badge that helps scouts understand what to do if you are ever lost. However I donít think these scouts got the full gist of this one...